Comments by Jen Roesch Most recent public comments by Jen Roesch https://nowcomment.com/users/108285 My son's school was a public school (Central Park East 1) and class sizes were standard. https://nowcomment.com/documents/207234?scroll_to=2505994 https://nowcomment.com/documents/207234?scroll_to=2505994 However, it was very small (about 200 kids) and teachers (including specials, paraprofessionals, special ed and intervention teachers, and counselors) collaborated across grades so they got to know kids over time. There was a lot of time for staff collaboration. They were very creative about scheduling and dividing classes for music, art and movement to allow for small group work and support. Beyond that, I think the progressive curriculum and pedagogy was crucial for allowing this attention. The curriculum was emergent and inquiry-based. The center of every day was a 2 hour block of "work time" in which kids chose their activity area and developed their own projects and interests. Because students were directing their learning in so many ways, this allowed teachers to spend a lot of time observing. Literacy was woven through this work time as kids kept work time journals. There was a lot of focus on social-emotional growth, which yields big dividends as kids get older and are able to take more responsibility for their work. The school had an 80% opt-out rate from the standardized tests, which also freed teachers from having to "teach to the test" and there was a lot of buy-in to alternative assessments and a more holistic understanding of the child. I think all of this helped. But it IS very challenging still to do all this with the large class sizes and small budgets of a public school. It's really made possible by a teaching staff and parent body that is committed to the model. But for it to really scale system-wide, I do think it would require smaller class sizes and far more professional support than teachers usually receive. These are the kinds of schools rich families choose for their own children, but then they tell us that the rest of us needs skills-driven, test-driven, "no-excuses" schools. I agree that every child deserves this amount of attention and to be treated as an individual rather than a product to which we are expected to "add value". Tue, 19 Jul 2022 18:44:42 +0400 This calls into question whether her grade retention earlier was inappropriate. The use of high-stakes, standardized, non-holistic testing can lead to such inappropriate retention in my opinion. https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505917 https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505917 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:57:35 +0400 This is a problem, particularly for girls. Many girls with ADHD go undiagnosed until middle school because girls tend to be well-behaved, have strong verbal skills and are able to compensate. https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505915 https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505915 But this can be really challenging when the demands begin to exceed that ability to compensate because it's even more damaging to the sense of self. Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:56:22 +0400 I noticed this too! The language really matters. https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505914 https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505914 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:54:49 +0400 That must be a lot of trauma at such a young age to not be able to even describe what happened. https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505911 https://nowcomment.com/documents/206774?scroll_to=2505911 Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:53:15 +0400 It just feels like there's so much missing here. https://nowcomment.com/documents/204570?scroll_to=2505908 https://nowcomment.com/documents/204570?scroll_to=2505908 This doesn't follow the template of the descriptive review process and I think it really suffers as a result. It feels a little like someone is describing a file rather than a person. I'm not clear on why he doesn't have an IEP. I'm also not clear why he's already planned to go to a transfer school and whether there's been full exploration of potential transfer schools. He's a younger student for a transfer student and there are many places that are smaller and I imagine could provide more support. I'm thinking of places like Urban Academy, Arturo Schomburg Satellite, or City-as-School. All seem like a more appropriate option for a kid who shows strong interest in learning but needs more hands-on support - both academic and social-emotional. It's hard not to read this and feel like the system has just kind of given up on him. Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:49:24 +0400 This is a really great question! Sadly, I think the answer would likely be yes. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505786 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505786 Just as high-stakes testing is an inaccurate measurement of our students, I think high-stakes evaluations of teachers inhibit the kind of vulnerability and openness that are central to this process--and are the basis for genuine growth. Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:34:44 +0400 The nonjudgmental language, and lack of assumptions, is so critical. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505785 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505785 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:32:59 +0400 I think there's an inherent challenge in that people who go into teaching are likely to have been successful in school and had an affinity for it. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505784 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505784 I think this can make it challenging to understand when children have different learning needs or challenges. I also think it can make us tend to "just try harder" to get kids to understand what we "know works" because it worked for us. But just because it worked for us, or for other kids we've taught, doesn't mean it will work for every student. Sometimes we have to let go of what "we know" and try to learn from the kids themselves. I see this as one of the greatest values of the descriptive review process. I think it leads naturally towards this kind of work. I really appreciate this teacher's openness to self-reflection. Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:32:01 +0400 It seems her verbal language abilities outpace her written expression and print reading. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505783 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505783 This could cause intense frustration because she doesn't have the ability to fully express herself in those mediums. I think it would be important to find ways to continue stimulating her intellectual development and creating ways for her to continue developing her oral literacy skills while scaffolding her reading and writing to gradually catch up. I think a big danger is to "dumb down" material to the existing level of her reading and writing skills. This can cause disengagement and frustration. Instead, the challenge is to scaffold and find adaptations that can meet her at her intellectual level despite the lagging skills. Some ideas might be: using audio books (mentioned elsewhere as effective); a scribe or voice-to-text program; multimodal literacy projects and opportunities for using visual or other multimedia forms for demonstrating understanding; ample opportunity for classroom discussion in which Jane can use her strong vocabulary and verbal language students to be a leader amongst her peers. Tue, 26 Jul 2022 22:38:56 +0400 This is a really good question. I'm also wondering if Jane would benefit from a scribe. This could help her separate out the thinking process of composing from the technical skills of writing, which could build confidence. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505782 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505782 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:18:40 +0400 I'm curious why it's hard to find developmentally appropriate literature. Is she saying her reading level is below her developmental/interest level? Or is it the reverse? I'd like to hear more. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505781 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505781 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:16:06 +0400 I really love these focusing questions. They are the most child-centered of all the ones I've seen thus far. I think the right questions are important because they shape what you notice. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505780 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505780 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:05:30 +0400 Imagine if kids in public schools could be in a class with only 10 children!!! https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505779 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208695?scroll_to=2505779 Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:08:34 +0400 I have a general objection to the use of rewards and punishments, but I think there's a specific concern about their impact on Amy. They will likely yield short-term results, but could increase anxiety that interferes with learning. https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505778 https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505778 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:59:12 +0400 This is such an important point. Linguistic skills and literacy skills are not the same thing. This close observation will yield far more useful assessment. https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505777 https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505777 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:55:03 +0400 This description confirms that she is struggling to meet expectations at school. She is also clearly working very hard and is "motivated" by rewards. These may come at the cost of internalizing her difficulties, however, rather than seeking help. https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505776 https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505776 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:52:11 +0400 The discrepancy between cooperative behavior at school and challenging behavior at home is very common. These kids may be struggling to meet expectations at school and decompose in the safety of home. https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505775 https://nowcomment.com/documents/210106?scroll_to=2505775 I think it's important to both validate the parents' observations and to not assume that there is something wrong with the home environment that is creating the challenging behavior. Equally important is to use this information to try to look beneath the good behavior to find the expectations or challenges that the child might be struggling with at school. Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:49:41 +0400 This is the second time she's mentioned his enthusiasm for Reading Street. This seems like something to explore and connect with him over. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505774 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505774 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:40:52 +0400 I wonder if the teacher's obvious frustration with Jacob's distractibility is getting in the way of her being open and curious to his interests. She mentions his enthusiasm for reading, but then moves on to behavior. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505773 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505773 Mon, 02 Aug 2021 09:39:24 +0400 I find it striking that the teacher has extensive commentary about his behavior but seems to have limited knowledge or observations about his activities and interests. https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505772 https://nowcomment.com/documents/208696?scroll_to=2505772 Fri, 22 Jul 2022 21:37:17 +0400 My son went to an elementary school where descriptive review was the centerpiece. All the teachers were trained at this center. The deep knowledge they had of my child was evident. https://nowcomment.com/documents/207234?scroll_to=2505771 https://nowcomment.com/documents/207234?scroll_to=2505771 We got 3 page narrative reports instead of report cards. His 2nd grade teacher had him read to us at a family conference and explained exactly what literacy skills he had (intonation, decoding, etc). She knew his interests and how to engage him, who he chose to work with at work time, and his specific strengths and challenges. All of the teachers in the school collaborated and learned about each child so that there was continuity as they progressed through the years. I had never seen anything like it. It was amazing. Sun, 24 Jul 2022 06:19:44 +0400 I remembered this when I read quotes from Simone Biles about why she stepped back from competing at the Olympics to protect her mental health. I think it's a great example of also modeling when to NOT persist. Link in full comment. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2503833 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2503833 I think it's really important that high-profile athletes are modeling what it looks like to know one's own limits and how to advocate for their own physical and mental health. The price for when people don't feel like they can do that is often too high. As educators, I think we also have a responsibility to help our students develop this ability - and to support them in those choices. "I was like: I think the girls need to do the rest of the competition without me. They were like 'I promise you'll be fine, we watched you warm-up'. But I said 'no, I know I am going to be fine but I can't risk a medal for the team and I need to call it... You usually don't hear me say things like that because I usually persevere and push through things, but not to cost the team a medal. So they were like: OK, if Simone says this, we need to take it pretty serious. I had the correct people around me to do that." https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/sport/simone-biles-tokyo-2020-olympics/index.html Wed, 28 Jul 2021 05:48:18 +0400 This is so true. I grew up hating math. But as an adult I realize that math is all around me. I think math curriculum these days is much better at teaching underlying concepts, which I think are inherently more relevant. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503121 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503121 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 04:45:18 +0400 I was hoping I could post a picture, but I had an example of this. I used coding blocks (conceptually) as a way to teach my son subject & predicate. I had subject as everything related to the sprite & predicate as the action blocks. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503120 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503120 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 04:42:59 +0400 I really agree with this. And I think the content creation is far more collaborative than previously. I think re-mixing is easier and tremendously exciting. It breaks down barriers between writer and audience. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503119 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503119 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 04:41:22 +0400 I think this is true. I had a lot of classmates in undergrad who begged to be taught the 5 paragraph essay. And I know that structure has been a bedrock for me. But I'm also starting to see computational thinking as more recursive & messy than I assumed. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503118 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503118 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 04:35:18 +0400 This seems like a great process. I wonder what it would look like if you began by remixing. Would the answers to the previous questions look different? Be deeper? I'm thinking they might. https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503027 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503027 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:45:11 +0400 The debugging project was by far my favorite Scratch assignment!!! Some I solved right away and others took a lot more work. But the feeling of figuring it out was exhilirating. https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503023 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503023 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:41:35 +0400 Yes to all of these!!! I think this mirrors the recursive practices involved in writing process pedagogy. https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503022 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503022 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:40:55 +0400 This makes a lot of sense to me if you believe that people learn best through constructivist pedagogical practices. It also mirrors my own experience of wanting to jump in and learn via solving the inevitable problems that emerged. https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503021 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503021 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:40:09 +0400 This is such a critical skill and is so difficult for students who have challenges with sequencing and other executive function tasks. How can we best support students with disabilities in acquiring this skill? https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503020 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503020 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:38:40 +0400 This was one of the things I had to work through in the Mouse project. I had to figure out how to get the sprite to return to its original position, which was challenging without a reset button. It was very satisfying to solve:) https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503019 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503019 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:37:44 +0400 A general note re the annotation process: I find myself responding to sentences as I go, but I think that can be misleading without grasping the whole of the argument. https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503018 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280371?scroll_to=2503018 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:34:11 +0400 I think coding can help kids (and adults) to think systematically and to break down overwhelming projects into manageable steps. I have questions about how it relates to more open-ended, recursive thinking processes that I believe are also important. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503016 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503016 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:32:46 +0400 I have a question about how computational thinking relates to a messier understanding of writing process as a non-linear process. Are these things at odds? I'm not sure. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503014 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503014 Fri, 15 Jul 2022 20:42:39 +0400 I think it's interesting because kids learn these rules through exploration. One connection I see is that I "discover" the algorithms through exploration of the coding process and trial and error. https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503013 https://nowcomment.com/documents/279583?scroll_to=2503013 Tue, 27 Jul 2021 00:30:51 +0400 Algorithm in image https://nowcomment.com/documents/280475?scroll_to=2502589 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280475?scroll_to=2502589 The space key must be pressed. I think it is to walk in a circle and return to the original starting point. Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:12:50 +0400 Examples of algorithms in daily life https://nowcomment.com/documents/280475?scroll_to=2502588 https://nowcomment.com/documents/280475?scroll_to=2502588 For my partner, making coffee in the aeropress is an algorithm triggered by waking up in the morning and must be executed before anything else can be done. 1. Walk in kitchen 2. Flip on electric kettle. 3. Flip on grinder. 4. Put 2 equals in cup. 5. Pour coffee grinds into aeropress. 6. Pour hot water over grinds and let steep. 7. Take half & half out of fridge. 8. Pour several tablespoons half & half into cup. 9. Pour Microwave cup with equal & half and half for 45 seconds. 10. Stir water and coffee grinds. 11. Place filter and lid on aeropress. 12. Flip aeropress over cup and press down to extract coffee. A fire drill would be an algorithm used in a school. I couldn't break down the steps right now though. Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:01:39 +0400 This tells us a lot about what our society values and rewards, but I'm not convinced that this is the same thing as intelligence. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502207 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502207 Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:54:07 +0400 I appreciate that this paragraph talks about the way our curriculum and pedagogy works against the development of these habits of mind. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502206 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502206 Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:52:22 +0400 Not sure about this. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502205 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502205 Again, I think there is a trade off. People who are blind or deaf often develop an acuity of their other senses that is far greater than that of a sighted or hearing person. So I'm not sure it's accurate to say that someone able to use all their senses is at an inherent advantage in intelligence over someone who is not. Instead, I'd think about the different ways people absorb knowledge and how to balance the tradeoffs. By way of personal example, I recently learned that I have a rare condition in which I cannot produce mental visual images. I only recently learned that other people literally see things in their mind's eye. I do not. This is clearly a deficit in some ways and I feel the loss of it now that I know others have this ability. At the same time, it goes a long way to explaining my intense presence in the moment, my constant narration of events and the scene around me, and the rich vocabulary I've developed. Things that other people see in pictures in their mind, I see in words that feel so real that I could touch, smell and see them. I've cultivated a different kind of intelligence as a result, but I would not say it is lesser. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:30:30 +0400 I really agree with this, but it also seems at odds with "managing impulsivity". I think this is another example of why these habits are often in a dynamic, but hopefully productive, tension with one another. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502204 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502204 Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:24:19 +0400 This is a good point. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502203 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502203 This is a good point. I also think we should normalize pauses in conversation. We shouldn't have to have instantaneous answers and responses. It should be okay to say, "wow, I hear that. Let me think about that for a minute." When conversation is so fast paced, it can be hard to really listen and reflect before speaking. I think this contributes to the phenomenon of formulating a response while listening. Sat, 16 Jul 2022 00:16:27 +0400 Listening https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502202 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502202 I find this interesting because in English/rhetoric & composition, we spend a lot of time talking about the need to communicate to an intended audience. Writers and speakers are always asked to communicate with the audience in mind. But I don't think we spend enough time asking listeners to listen with the speaker or writer in mind. We put all the burden on the speaker/writer and little on the listener. This is relevant, in my opinion, to debates about what constitutes "appropriate" language or proper usage conventions. Whose standards are we being asked to perform to and whose cultures, language practices and conventions are being marginalized? Focusing on listening and empathy seems important in this regard. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 22:20:13 +0400 I really appreciate your comment Sarah! https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502182 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502182 I think this lacks empathy and imagination for the many reasons a student might struggle to persist. I also think we should consider what we can do as educators to create conducive environments rather than simply looking to change the mindsets of students. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:59:44 +0400 This is an example, in my opinion, of ableism. Variable attention can be a deficit, but it can also be an attribute. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502178 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502178 People with ADHD are often given tips and tricks for how to better focus their attention. They are trained to work against rather than with their brain's natural way of functioning. While I generally agree that people with ADHD can benefit from learning how to focus their attention and manage their time, I think many also cause themselves unnecessary pain trying to work against their natural inclinations. People with ADHD are better described as having "variable attention" and can be astonishingly focused ("hyperfocused") on tasks that engage and interest them. Instead of always trying to better focus on externally mandated tasks, we can also give people with ADHD the opportunity and means to engage with tasks that are meaningful to them. We can help them to leverage their ability to hyper-focus and to think creatively. But this requires starting from a standpoint of seeing ADHD as a divergent way of thinking and processing (with attendant strengths and challenges) rather than simply as a deficit. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:51:08 +0400 I think it can be equally important to know when to abandon a task or project. Persisting in a fruitless task is not valuable. Sometimes you might find you are more useful elsewhere, or someone else can do the task better. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502161 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502161 Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:02:51 +0400 But why do we value one pattern of intellectual behaviors over another? Are there other patterns we are missing? And do we have a responsibility to make society more responsive to a greater diversity of intellectual behaviors? https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502159 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502159 Mon, 30 Aug 2021 17:50:00 +0400 I think this is critical. I would add that we should look at the different ways that different students produce knowledge and build on that diversity. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502157 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502157 Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:42:49 +0400 Referring back to my earlier concerns about ableism, this is an example. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502156 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502156 One characteristic of many (not all) autistic people is rigid thinking. But, they also tend to think and communicate with clarity and precision. Non-autistic people might respond to this clarity and precision by saying that they are not being flexible. So, in this scenario, these two habits of mind might be in contradiction. And it might be that an individual may possess one to a greater degree than, and possibly at the expense of, the other. Rather than looking at these as attributes every individual must possess, it might be helpful to see them as contributions individuals make to a greater whole. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:41:23 +0400 I am ambivalent about choosing these attributes as signifiers of intelligence. My instinct is to agree, but I also am concerned about potential ableism and how neurodivergent thinking fits into this framework. https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502155 https://nowcomment.com/documents/247448?scroll_to=2502155 There are certain habits of mind and ways of thinking that our society traditionally values and rewards. However, I've lately been thinking and learning about neurodivergence and understanding this not as a deficit but as a different way of thinking. I have not yet had time to really think through whether these 16 habits encompass that divergence, but it is something I am attuned to. And, in general, I become uncomfortable with attempts to definite "intelligence" in very specific ways that don't account for different kinds of intelligence. I appreciate that the habits of mind are trying to focus on an approach to learning rather than narrow, discrete skills or content. But I also find myself uneasy. Thu, 22 Jul 2021 21:37:26 +0400