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EDU 807 Summer 2018 - Week 4 - Interview with Megan Erickson - Group 1


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In this episode of the Majority Report, Megan Erickson critiques a variety of ideas that are popular in current conversations related to educational technology. I have tried to mark a few spots in the video related to different topics, and I invite you to discuss these ideas -- in light of what you just read in the ISTE standards.

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As you listen, consider what the conceptions of students (and what technology/standards) can do with/for/to students? Who benefits? Who is left behind? What is the actual purpose for using the technology?

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As you read, make connections between Erickson's argument about how and why students should use technology and compare them to the ISTE Standards.

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What types of changes outlined in the standards appear to be easy to make? Which changes will be more difficult? Why?

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For instance, at at about 1:50, she talks about "student-centered" and "personalized" techniques and then deconstructs that argument. This reminds me of ISTE standard for students 5c, which suggests that students "Demonstrate personal responsibility for lifelong learning." At this point in the video, then, I would want to offer some connection between Erickson and ISTE, pointing out the fact that -- while ISTE may have good intentions to help students become self-motivated and independent, Erickson notes that this is an unrealistic expectation fueled by a technocratic vision of education. What, in the ed tech industry's eyes, does it mean to be "personalized?" Is personalized learning in all students' best interests? Etc...

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Please offer three initial comments, as well as three replies to your classmates' comments.

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:38PM) : Personalized Learning more

In this segment, she talks about “personalized learning,” making connections to Skinner and Kahn Academy.

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May 23
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 23 2018 12:17AM) : Personalized Learning more

Erickson makes several comparisons between personalized learning systems and Skinner. Her primary argument is that these systems isolate the learner, making them disconnected to each other and do not encourage collaboration.

First, while I understand the argument she is making, I feel it is a bit one-dimensional. Yes, if students were exclusively working alone for days on end, with only a algorithm to teach them, it would be characteristic of some dystopian future. But that isn’t the case – or at least shouldn’t be – and isn’t the intention. Technology like Khan Academy should be used in conjunction with collaborative active learning.

Her argument is like saying we shouldn’t use books to teach math because then students will be isolated reading and working alone. I see personalized and adaptive learning systems as a more advanced textbook. It should be one part of the experience.

Second, her assumption is that technology can not be used to enable collaboration and communication, only isolated rote learning. There are many examples (including the platform we’re in now) that show the possibilities of web-based collaboration.

This first argument is against isolating students; I can agree with that, but I don’t this technology is the threat. Teaching methods with promote better communication and collaboration.

In terms of the ISTE standards, personalized learning is most aligned with Standard 1, Empowered Learner. Specifically 1A and 1D. These systems aid in transfer of fundamental concepts (1D) and aid learners in the learning process (1A). I would actually take the opposite position from Erickson, that personalized learning systems can provide the opportunity for more classroom collaboration. With these ISTE standards met outside the classroom, independently, there is more time in the classroom for rich communication – modeled the flipped classroom.

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May 24
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 24 2018 3:10PM) : You are on track--in support of technology and how it enables collaboration. more

Erickson has a unique view on the affordances of technology. She seems to be against it for reasons that those of us in this cohort would not have considered. For that reason, it was a good inclusion for our reading this week.

I agree that technology is a PERFECT tool for enabling more communication and collaboration, and not just with the people in the class alongside us, but with people around the world. Technology opens the way for the goals of sharing knowledge and thus enabling people everywhere to develop. Technology will not be going away (we wouldn’t want it to), and rather than treat it with suspicion and contempt, let’s use it to help humanity.

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May 26
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 26 2018 4:13PM) : Help Humanity more

I love that prospect. I think that these critical voices are important to consider in offering a warning and a word of caution. However, there is great potential in individual self directed learning enables by adaptive systems. It seems they are wholly dismissed here.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 6:36PM) : Re: Adam - Helping Humanity more

Hi Susan and Adam,

I am on the same page. Erickson seems very skeptical of over integrating technology into learning environments. I believe this opinion differs strongly from the students in our class, which I sense have a strong passion for technology and driving innovations. However, inclusion of resources like this are critical to our own learning process because they are not only worthy of consideration, but will likely be shared by some of our peers in the working world and need to be addressed.

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May 28
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 28 2018 12:48AM) : critical perspective more

I totally agree. The skeptics will have valid arguments that deserve consideration. It’s important to remember that advances in technology are not by default positive.

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May 28
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 28 2018 5:25PM) : Keep moving forward more

It is difficult to really listen to a perspective so far the other direction, but no doubt the arguments she raises have validity from her perspective and should be considered. The word of warning, as Adam put it, is wise to hear.

We have seen personally, though, that the affordances of technology in education have opened the entire world to us as students. I do not want to and cannot revert to the closed world of before.

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May 27
Mr. John Golden Mr. John Golden (May 27 2018 8:26PM) : Adam, you make some good points in your write up. I, too, found almost all of Megan's views to be far left. That is, she claims that students do not collaborate when they use computers. She states that students work in isolation and stare at the computer. more

I, too, can think of many examples where students use computers for web-based collaboration and learning.

Megan puts down the Gates Foundation. In my opinion, the Gates Foundation does a great job with helping disadvantaged student.

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May 28
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 28 2018 5:27PM) : Yes, that is the general perspective more

The Gates Foundation is known for being helpful leaders in the forward movement of technology and education. Just because it is big business does not mean that the motives must be questioned to this extent. I would like to see more and valid information to this point.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 4:13PM) : Personalized Learning more

Erickson makes connections to Skinner’s model and modern personalized learning pedagogy. Skinner’s learning machine represents a scenario where subjects, rats in Skinner’s case and students in Erickson’s case, are given a learning task and cannot move on to the next exercise until the current task is complete. Erickson argues that parallels exist between the indolence and autonomy given to learning students and their ability to dictate their own pace.

The downside to this approach is the lack of student-student interaction. For example, Khan Academy relies heavily technology to facilitate student-content interaction. Due to the increased freedom this provides to the instructor, when students get stuck the instructor has the ability to provide personalized teacher-student interaction. However, in a student-paced learning environment, gaps are naturally going to form between individual learners. With students at a variety of different points in the subject matter, it makes it difficult to facilitate ongoing student –student collaboration.

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:40PM) : Management more

In this segment, she talks about “management.”

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May 24
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 24 2018 3:26PM) : Peter Tucker and Elsevier--global information analytics business more

Erickson cites Peter Tucker and Elsevier as an example what not to do with technology, yet when I listen to their initial screencast, I cannot help but be impressed with their goals and drive to make the world better through technology. They want to “advance healthcare, open science and improve performance for the benefit of humanity.”

It is true that on Peter Tucker’s Linkedin summary he shares his passion for making processes more efficient, but I do not agree that that goal must mean that in education, we should not consider what processes could be more efficient. Just because business focuses on efficiency, schools can, too, continually check themselves to make sure that student needs are met even while considering what makes the school run more efficiently. No doubt the answer will point to some form of technology.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 6:46PM) : Re: Susan - Peter Tucker and Elsevier--Global Information Analytics Business more

Hi Susan,

I can understand and emphasis with Erickson’s example of Peter Tucker and Elsevier and what not to do with technology. However, I strongly agree with your position and outlook that they are attempting to achieve multiple goods across a variety of sectors through the integration of technology. Erickson seems to take a pretty hardline stance that business practices have no place in an educational environment. However, I agree with your statement that business practices, such as driving efficiency, do not need to be mutually exclusive. I have personally seen some very poorly administered educational program that could benefit from a more strategic and business-minded approach.

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May 28
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 28 2018 5:30PM) : Some of my jobs more

Yes, some of my jobs have been in schools where the leadership would have benefited from adopting a more strategic and business-minded approach. From finances to supervision to technology to curriculum…there must be a sound plan and it needs to be followed with wisdom and well. We all want to work for institutions that are run wisely and well.

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:41PM) : Charter Schools more

In this segment, she talks about “charter schools.”

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May 24
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 24 2018 3:54PM) : Don't stop innovation more

For Erickson, charter schools serve just one segment in society (and that, with a heavy dose of technology) and she takes issue with that.

Another view might be that charter schools offer opportunities for various emphases in content (math, for example), thus supporting the academic interests of students, which in turn could lead to innovations not possible without this early support and development of inherent talents/interests of students.

Charter schools have a unique position in society. Because they receive public funding, they appear to be public schools. But because they can fund raise and offer things outside the budget allotted to them, they appear private, too. One purpose of a charter school could be to try new things. It is the perfect setting to encourage innovations which will likely include technological components. It would seem short-sighted to stop innovation in such a setting.

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May 26
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 26 2018 4:20PM) : Charter Schools more

Being in higher ed, I don’t know a great deal about charter schools. I do have a good friend that was an teacher and later an administrator at a charter school. That particular school seemed a bit elitist in my opinion.

That said, I’m not necessarily against charter schools, I would just want to be sure the systems to not jeopardize the quality of the public school system in general. If charter schools provide innovation and access I think that is great.

Overall, I think having school funding based on property taxes reinforces income inequality. If charter schools can somehow be leveraged to aid in this problem, that would be exciting.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 6:25PM) : Re: Susan - Don't Stop Innovation more

Hi Susan,
I disagree that charter school only serve one segment of society. In the Metro Detroit area we can find charter school in every socio-economic community. For families who place a higher value on educations or are drawn to charter schools for their unique educational approach, these schools can be a great option. Additionally if successful, their experimental approaches to integrating technology and teaching students can serve as a model to outside institution and potentially enhance education on a broader scale.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 4:24PM) : Charter Schools more

Erickson seems to have a negative opinion of charter schools and privatized education at a whole. While I have worked in and seen firsthand some of the issues of for-profit education, I whole heartedly believe it can be done well. When organizations, even non-profits, have a strong focus on their bottom line they tend to be better stewards of their resources. In an educational instruction that is mission driven, this could result on more resources being put into classroom. Additionally, when an origination is run like a business, there is a mindset on staying competitive in order to thrive. Taking into account the consumer driven mindset, it behooves the school to drive student outcomes because that is essentially the product charter school consumers are buying.

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May 27
Mr. John Golden Mr. John Golden (May 27 2018 8:34PM) : Ryan, I do not work in the school environment but I can follow your logic. That is, when an entity is ran like a business, the focus is to stay competitive. more

That said, if charter schools are ran like a business, then the focus is to survive and stay competitive. With that mindset, I think charter schools will be successful. My concern is that business and capitalism can breed greedy people. So, if a charter school leadership is greedy, that could hurt the charter school concept.

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:43PM) : Income and SES more

In this segment, she talks about “income and SES.”

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May 23
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 23 2018 12:32AM) : Income more

Erickson’s arguments here I believe are valid. She mentions teachers not being able to use technology in new and creative ways and being forced to adopt technology in rigid formats. This is definitely a problem. In honesty it’s not one I see in higher ed a lot since there are fewer standards like common core. However in medical education, we do see a similar trend of teaching directly for the boards. Faculty resist technology because they feel they need to get through all the material and don’t have time to experiment.

I live in LA right now and remember the iPad debacle that Erickson mentions. LAUSD is a really big deal here and I have several friends that work in the district. So the underlying implication of EdTech companies taking advantage of districts is a valid concern.

Likewise the digital divide mentioned is troubling. For the parents in Peru to spend 1/4 of their income on grade school is not sustainable. This seems elitist and is a poor distribution of the advantages possible with technology.

Also mentioned is the fact that this practice will further stratify these children into homogeneous groups. ISTE standard 7A “Students use digital tools to connect with learners from a variety of backgrounds and cultures, engaging with them in ways that broaden mutual understanding and learning.” clearly addresses this concern. The system mentioned in Peru does not promote this standard and further enforces a social order based on income.

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:44PM) : Classroom Design more

In this segment, she talks about “classroom design.”

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Jan 20
Dr. Troy Hicks Dr. Troy Hicks (Jan 20 2017 12:46PM) : Curriculum Reform more

In this segment, she talks about “curriculum reform.”

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May 24
Susan Byers Susan Byers (May 24 2018 3:39PM) : Social change and happy students more

Erickson is not optimistic about curriculum reform happening quickly, but she believes it will come eventually. She cites examples of students, parents and even unions pushing back against the expectations to achieve standards (tests) and the pressure put on schools (teachers, students, parents)to reach benchmarks. She believes that this pushing will make momentum for the social changes that need to happen in school.

Schools are places where we see social changes, true, but should they be the laboratories for social change? How will all voices be represented in that? Might neutrality and fundamental student support serve the world just as well?

She says that students complain of having too much homework and that it is not fun for them.

Being a student is a career, a job. There are tasks to be done for the affordances that will come today and in the future. No job is fun all the time. That is not a necessary component to happiness. True self-esteem comes from hard work and doing valuable things. That might mean a significant amount of homework and some many hours of just plain rigor.

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May 27
Ryan Cahill Ryan Cahill (May 27 2018 6:24PM) : Curriculum Reform more

Erickson describes an extremely sterile and almost dystopian learning environment where students are planted at an individualized work stations in silence with no peer interaction. While this example may seems a little stark, it does highlight her claim that student centered learning stops at the individual student with no collaborative skills being taught. Erickson describes this process as exposing students to materials, having them commit it to memory, and immediately moving to the next task without making deeper connections or sharing insights. She explains that this approach does not instill critical thinking, help students make outside connections or aid students in seeing practical application. While I agree this is a disadvantage of the learning approach, I feel it can work well with specific populations or disciplines. For some learners, this may be the most effective approach to learning. This could be done very effectively in a charter school environment where students/parents could identify this being a better fit for the individual student and self-select enrolling in the curriculum.

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May 28
Adam Hain Adam Hain (May 28 2018 12:51AM) : collaboration more

This was the main idea that I disagreed with as well. The reality she describes is undesirable, but I don’t think that is what has happened.
Technology has greatly improved communication among students in my experience.

DMU Timestamp: January 02, 2017 19:32

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