When | Why |
---|---|
Feb-07-19 | More Questions |
Added February 07, 2019 at 7:57am
by William Stastny
Title: More Questions
6. What are your impressions of Victor? What personality traits best define him?
7. What role have women played in the novel so far? What do they think about? What do they feel? What do men look to them for? How do men treat them?
Logging in, please wait...
0 General Document comments
0 Sentence and Paragraph comments
0 Image and Video comments
You've made 0 of the 6 – 1000 requested comments
On page whatever, you can see Frankenstein’s enjoyment of nature when he says, “insert quote” (Shelley whatever). Now I explain. And explain some more.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
Victor grew up with loving parents and a good childhood that taught him to love nature. He was always a romantic, as shown on page 18 where he was surrounded and grew up with “majestic and wondrous scenes.” However, when he is infatuated with the idea of glory and creating the monster, he stays indoors and his “eyes were insensible to the charms of nature.” (pg. 33) This is a major shift in Victor, who we’ve seen before always curious but loving nature, which I believe is Shelley’s way of saying to pay attention to how Victor’s personality is changing in this particular instance.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
What do you think Mary Shelley wants us to pay attention to specifically? Though his romanticism has descended through the story, what do you think this will mean in the long run – thus is not stated.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I don’t believe that as a whole, his romanticism has been a steady decent, but rather a roller coaster of ups and downs. These certainly correlate with the mood and tone of the story, and Victor’s character development. Through this, I think Shelley is trying to show that nature and romanticism is a big part of who Victor is and that we should pay attention to how he reacts to it. If we do, we can see more about Frankenstein’s character and thinking.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
In the book, Frankenstein explains “They elevated me from all littleness of feeling; and although they did not remove my grief, they subdued and tranquilized it.” (Shelley 66) The book then goes on to say how the Monster is also on the same mountain,probably showing he likes nature too. Mary Shelley was possibly trying to show how nature helps you get away from troubled times you may be having.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
As we read on last night in the book we could see that the death of his sister has had a huge affect on him. However,nature has allowed him a place to go and escape the world. As Frankenstein states in the book by saying, “I was now free. Often, after the rest of the family had retired for the night, I took the boat and passed many hours upon the water”(pg 62, Mary Shelley). This proves the point that he has a place to go and get away from everyone and that’s through nature. People have different places they like to go when feeling down or angry and for Frankenstein its nature.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree with your point that nature has allowed him to escape the world
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I definitely agree with you but to take it even further I was wondering if there was a reason, like a situation or an action that caused him to turn specifically to nature
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
As a romantic, Shelley makes sure to include many descriptions of the beauty and sometimes even the power of nature. Victor Frankenstein talks of his “curiosity, earnest research to learn the hidden laws of nature…are among the earliest sensations I can remember,” (Shelley 18). But, his curiosity of nature takes a dark turn later on in the book, to the point where he goes against the laws of nature and creates life. He describes the"demoniacal corpse to which I had miserably given life. It is at this moment in which Frankenstein realizes his grave mistake of messing with the natural. Mary Shelley is using Victor as a warning to those thinking of opposing nature.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree completely with you when you state that her writing this book as a romantic is almost a warning to those who read it back when this was first published and that never came to my mind that she could be doing this so overall a fantastic idea!
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
With the expanding industrialism of the time many are losing sight of what truly matters and how important nature is in the modern and expanding world. As stated by Shelley," the sea, or rather the vast river of ice, wound around its dependent mountains, whose aerial summits hung over its recesses"(Shelley 67). This part proves how Shelley wants to enforce the emphasis of nature in the evolving world because in this part of the novel Frankenstein finds his monster in this beautiful place and he then proceeds to have a conversation with him, proving that Shelley wants to show us that nature needs to be preserved in the growing world.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Your explanation provided an interesting point of view that I didn’t see at first. Though I saw Shelley’s use of nature as a warning, I understand how you interpreted it to raise awareness of nature and think that it makes sense given what was happening in Europe at the time.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
I was surprised with how eloquent the monster was. He seemed truly human and intelligent. (pg 68-69)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
Hide Thread Detail
I’m wondering how the monster is as well spoken as Frankenstein. He never had a period of time to learn English. Is it because he’s created out of the body parts of other people who did? I just expected him to make incoherent grunts or something.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster started by charging at Frankenstein, but as soon as he approached Victor, he was immediately calm and not looking for violence. He only wanted to not be alone anymore, and he sadly tells Victor “I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous.” (page 69) I was surprised when he made a deal with Frankenstein,claiming “If you comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
Hide Thread Detail
Frankenstein already believes that the Monster is evil, but he has no reliable evidence that the Monster has committed the terrible crimes Victor accuses him of. Knowing that “all men hate the wretched; how, then, must I be hated,” why would the Monster attempt to change the minds of those who won’t listen (Shelley 68). Instead, the Monster is most likely acting as how others perceive him to be, either to scare Victor, or because he understands that some people are not willing to accept that he is not evil.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I agree but also I wonder if he wasn’t looking for violence then why did he (most likely) kill William?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I agree that the monster was not looking for violence. I think that when he saw someone up on the mountain he was frightened and wanted to look tough and scary so that the person wouldn’t hurt him, somewhat of a self defense. I think that once he realized it was Victor, his creator, he recognized him and decided to give him a second chance. The reason the monster may have killed William could have been self defense because he wasn’t expecting anyone to be in the woods and accidentally killed him out of fright.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the monster started talking with emotion, I was very surprised. As you read the discussion between Frankenstein and the monster you notice how the monster has the thoughts to not harm Frankenstein but to talk to him calmly. He doesn’t try to fight Frankenstein but instead calm him down. “Have I not suffered enough, that you seek to increase my misery?” (Shelley 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On page 70 it says “‘Thus I relieve thee, my creator’he said.” (Shelly, 70), he being the monster. Not only can the monster even talk, which is a big step up from just a few days ago, when he was not able to use real language, he also has a very thought out and intelligent response. I am interested to see how the monster will continue to develop because it seems that he is becoming more and more human-like as the book goes on, and this transformation is happening very quickly.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Do you think that Victor Frankenstein is less justified to turning away from the monster now that you know he is loquacious and not just a mumbling idiot?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Why should Victor Frankenstein feel differently when he believes and now knows for a fact the monster murdered his brother?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Actually, I was more asking about the levels of wonder that the monster shows. Before, we knew that he was created and given life by Frankenstein, but very little about his abilities. We now know that he is able to have his own reasoning and thinking, and portray them through speaking in a very eloquent way. This enhances Victor’s creation to a higher standard. Instead of just a being, he has created a some sort of person that has its own opinions and thinking. This is a fact that makes Victor’s handling of the monster, that is, turning it away and trying to forget about it, more severe now that you know the monster truly has feelings and thoughts. I mentioned nothing about his brother and his murder.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Not this again.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I was surprised by the fact that the monster was talking and just wanted to be happy. On page 69 the monster says to Frankenstein “Make me happy, and I shall again be virtuous.” Also, the fact that the monster could talk that well when just a few days ago he couldn’t speak at surprised me the most. This makes me wonder how he’ll develop through the story.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Frankenstein meets his monster in dialogue, I was surprised that there even was a dialogue! The monster states that he “‘expected this reception’” because “‘All men hate the wretched’” (Shelley 68). He wants Frankenstein to "’Listen to [Him] (Shelley 69), but he threatens in quite an dark way that if he does not heed his word, The wretch will “‘glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends’”.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
On page 69 after Victor tells the monster to leave because he is angry with him, the monster says, “How can I move thee? Will no intreaties cause thee to favourable eye upon thy creature, who implores thy goodness and compassion?”. He rambles on about how miserable he was after Victor ran away from him and didn’t know what to do and how he is scared. I know if my mom ran away from me I would be very upset just like the monster. But as he told Victor about his feelings, he didn’t yell or scream, he calmly explined what was going on with him.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree that it was surprising that the monster was so calm. I like your simile with your mom running away from you it made the situation more understandable.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I agree it was definitely very surprising and almost scary to see how calm and collected the monster came across. Even after how he had been described, and things he was accused of, he came across so human like
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I have to agree with what you are stating because as we read we could see that the monster was in fact calm while talking to victor and how he even showed intelligence instead of just being a stupid monster. I love how you added a example in what you have written as well.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When they met on the mountain, the monster said, “All men hate the wretched;..Yet you, my creator,detest and spurn me, thy creation, to whom thou art bound ties only dissoluble by the annihilation of one of us. You purpose to kill me.” First off, the monster spoke a complete thought out sentence. That shows the he is intelligent and has a brain that functions somewhat normally. And what he said shows that he also has emotions and feelings. He feels abandoned because everyone despises him including his creator, who is supposed to love and care for him.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Do you think that because the monster is more “human-like” that it is more the monsters fault for what happened or more Victors?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
you make a very good point here and I have to agree with you. Especially when you state that he has human emotions and when victor just left him he did feel abandoned because in the sentence that was spoken to victor it showed us some intelligence which also shows us readers that he could have feelings. All in all this makes us start to feel bad for the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Thread Detail
I can agree, but is there any place in the text that can prove your statement, and to take it even further, if it was a place Victor visited often, is there a specific reason for that?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On page 68, I was particularly surprised when the monster refrained from killing Frankenstein and even wanted him to hear his tale instead of yelling or beating upon Frankenstein. “He eluded me easily, and said— ‘Be calm! I intreat you to hear me, before you give vent to your hatred on my devoted head.’” (Shelley 68). Despite Frankenstein’s hatred toward the monster, the monster still is willing to talk peacefully.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I was surprised at how the monster knew what he wanted and how much he seemed to have thought on this topic. I was also shocked that the monster was so docile at a time like that
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the monster met with Victor on the mountain, I was surprised as to how calm he spoke and almost with a human like manner. He also showed much emotion with his which I was surprised to see. The monster states on page 68 that “yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me, thy creation,to whom thou art bound ties only dissoluble by the annihilation of one of us.You purpose to kill me”(Mary Shelly). This shows that the monster really did have a brain and was about to show his emotion, not by being violent, but by having a real conversation.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Despite Victor’s aggressive approach calling the monster a “devil” and “vile insect”, the monster stayed surprisingly calm and didn’t react violently even with hurtful comments. (Shelley 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the monster and Frankenstein meet on the mountain Frankenstein is not willing to listen to the monster or even give him a chance to explain yourself. He automatically “purposes to kill” to monster, he shows no mercy and believes the monster should be punished for the “victims whom,” he had “diabolically murdered.”(Shelley, 68) This follows the pattern of “an eye for an eye,” used in ancient civilizations, where if you harm someone you need to receive that same treatment to receive absolution. All the monster wants is to be heard, but Frankenstein can’t lay down his pride or innocence to let the monster explain himself.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
When the Victor first sees the monster, he quickly yells the word devil and threatens him saying, “Do you dare approach me? and do not you fear the fierce vengeance of my arm wreaked on your miserable head?” (Shelley 68) With Victor saying such things without letting the monster first say why he is there, you can infer Victor is not as friendly. With Victor saying such things, your mindset on how Victor is as a person changes drastically from seeing him as a caring person to more of a fighter.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I feel like Frankenstein was disgusted and mad at the monster.
In the story it says “the miserable monster whom I had created.” By Frankenstein saying this he is showing that he dislikes the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Do you think that Victor now feels differently about the monster because of his intelligence or what he did?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Frankenstein sees the monster, he describes it as a “sight tremendous and abhorred!” (Shelley 68) showing that he reacted to it negatively. He calls it a “‘Devil!’” (Shelley 68) and tells it to “‘Begone, vile insect! or rather, stay that I many trample you to dust!’” (Shelley 68). He is in a “rage… without bounds” (Shelley 68) because he believes that his monster killed his little brother William.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
I fully agree with what surprised you. That fact described me too.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
As we know, Victor and his monster definitely haven’t had a very healthy relationship up to this point. However, it is shown on page 68 when the monster approaches Frankenstein with almost a deal. He proposes that he will leave victor ad others alone if he treats him better (Mary Shelly). This shows how inconsiderate and selfish Victor can be at times. By turning the monster away after he shared his conditions and calling him a devil, it has me reconsidering who I’m rooting for in the story.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I think that you are right by saying that Frankenstein has been making rash decisions lately. His actions seem impulsive and inconsiderate. I think that Frankenstein’s actions are affecting his relationships as well as his reputation towards readers. I think that there are a few other examples of Victor’s inconsiderateness that you could add to improve your argument like letting Justine take the blame for William’s death.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Frankenstein clearly regrets making his monster because he said he made him in “negligence” (Shelley 68). To me, it seems that he regrets animating this giant who is “superior to [him]” because he believes that he himself caused to deaths at the hand of this deathly “daemon” (Shelley 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Maybe add more evidence to support what you said. I fully agree with that he regrets it.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On pg 69, the monster states, “The guilty are allowed, by human laws, as bloody as they are, to speak in their own defence before they are condemned.” He didn’t deny anything, he was saying that he should have a chance to explain why he did what he did. He’s speaking so intelligently because he believes he had good reason to, and he wants to try and make Frankenstein understand.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
After the monster came up to Victor, he even threatened Victor. In the words of the monster,“…but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” Not only does this show that he, in fact, doesn’t mind murdering to get back at Victor, but leads you to believe that the attack on William was done by the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
When the monster first starts talking to Victor, his first paragraph says, “Do your duty towards me, and I will do mine towards you and the rest of mankind.” Suggesting that if Victor ever tried to kill the monster and it didn’t work, the monster would go out to try and kill mankind." (Shelley 68). Not only does the monster say that he would try to kill mankind, he also goes on to say, “If you will comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (Shelley 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On page 68, Victor yells at the monster saying, “Restore those victims whom you have so diabolically murdered!” Victor tells the monster to admit to killing William. Then the monster responds to him saying, “If i comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends”. He is basically telling Victor that if he’s not nice to him and loving to him because he created him, he’ll make him pay by killing people he loves. The monster just wants to be loved and Victor won’t do that so he killed William to open his eyes up to see what the monster could really do.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I wasn’t really thinking like this when I was reading but see where this makes sense. I thought maybe the monster killed William out of self defense, but your claim shows that he could have been trying to show Victor the lengths he would go to receive love and attention. Great job getting me to believe you!
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
There are many clear signs so far that the monster was the murderer of william. One of these signs is shown on page 68 when the monster approaches Victor with a somewhat deal. Victor says “I could, with the extinction of your miserable exsistence, restore those victims whom you have so diabollically killed”(Mary Shelly). The monster is clearly affected by the way victor thinks f him, and wants to change that view. So if Victor assumed something that wasn’t true, the monster should have made an effort to deny it, but there was no denying of the crime when the monster was accused
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster seems to threaten Victor by saying “you purpose to kill me” and “do your duty towards me, and I will do mine towards you and the rest of mankind” (Shelley 68). He is implying that fact that he will leave him and those close to him if he cooperates instead of killing the monster. Thus, suggesting he isn’t afraid of murdering someone and had already murdered someone.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster created by Victor Frankenstein was indeed the murderer of William (Frankenstein’s brother), and this is indeed confirmed by his current actions and admission of guilt within the text. When Frankenstein meets his creation on the mountain, he is first accused in the quote on page 68, “… with the extinction of your miserable existence, restore those victims whom you have so diabolically murdered!” (Mary Shelley). After a small quarrel between the two characters, the monster states following on the same page an admission of guilt, “If you will comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (Mary Shelley). This clearly shows that the monster is capable of murder and is even threatening to murder MORE of Victor’s loved ones if he doesn’t comply with the presented terms.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
In the text, it’s clear that the monster truly values Frankenstein. He says that he will be “mild and docile” to his “lord and king.” (pg. 69) He truly believes Frankenstein to be his God, so why would he want to hurt his family? He only wants to be given what he is due, and I believe the threat to kill his family is only an empty threat.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
The words you have cited are taken quite out of context. This is only true if Frankenstein complies with the monsters demands, further adding to the already hostile actions of his creation. My claim is still correct in this instance.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I don’t really believe my quotation was out of context. It was Frankenstein who began the hostility of the relationship between himself and the monster, and it seems like the monster only felt like he needed to add to this malice by the threat. Also, after he made the comment that you mentioned in your first claim, he no longer continues his violence but with longing for peace and happiness despite the fact that Frankenstein continually threatens him, which could suggest that the monster regretted or didn’t mean his previous statement.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Although the monster wants peace, on page 68, his tone and the words he says implies he had a part in the death of William. “Do your duty towards me and I will do mine towards you and the rest of mankind. If you will comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (Shelley 68). The monster seems suspicious given the way he speaks to Victor that implies that he murdered William.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I somewhat agree with what you’re saying, but do you have any textual evidence that suggests the monster killed William because of what Victor did? I think the monster only killed William out of anger about the situation, not knowing the relationship he had with Victor.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
After Victor created the monster, he “rushed downstairs” and “took refuge in the courtyard” the whole night (Shelley 36). This abandonment by Victor saddened the monster and caused him to leave. All he wanted was compassion from his creator.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
The monster created by Victor Frankenstein is currently in an emotional state similar to that of sorrow due to his denial of human rights and nature. The monster’s response to this is stated on page 68 when he is speaking with Victor, “Yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me, thy creature, to whom thou art bound by ties only dissoluble by the annihilation of one of us. You purpose to kill me.” (Mary Shelley). This highlights the present anger with Frankenstein and the world, caused by his creation and repulsive identity – which is purely the fault of Victor Frankenstein and his endeavor to bring the dead back to life.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Isn’t Frankenstein justified in his desire to kill the monster? After all, the monster did kill Frankenstein’s younger brother. Why isn’t this interpreted as the monster emotionally manipulating Victor?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
You explained everything really well.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Frankenstein’s first reaction to the monster was fear and disgust, and when he fled, so did the monster. However, this helped the monster understand how the rest of the world would see him, saying, “‘You, my creator, abhor me; what hope can I gather from your fellow creatures, who owe me nothing?’” (pg 69). The blame is to be put on Frankenstein AND the rest of the world.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Thread Detail
Is it not possible for abandoned children to learn what’s right and wrong? Couldn’t the monster have learned even without Victor teaching him?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
If the monster can already feel emotion and know how to act in such a way then why did he still kill William? Especially since William didn’t do anything to the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Right from the beginning, the monster tried to reach out and have a human connection with Victor but he denied him. So of course now that’s what the monster thinks all people are like. “One hand was stretched out out to detain me, but I escaped,” said on page 35. That shows how Victor instantly thought the monster was bad and ran away from him leaving him not knowing what to do.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
What would you say to the people who argue that once the monster was on his own he was responsible for his own actions. Did Victor MAKE the monster kill William?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor should have been nicer to the monster and not have run away from his problems but instead should have stayed to see what he had truly created.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Frankenstein first created the monster, he instantly thought the creature would try to harm him. As said by Victor on pg. 35, “One hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped.” All the monster wanted from Victor was a connection and some compassion, but instead his creator ran away from him.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On pages 35 and 36 we clearly see Victor create this monster. Not only does he physically create him but he emotionally shapes his conscience. On page 35 it says " …one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped and rushed downstairs." (Shelly, 36). This very action is what shapes the monster into what he has become, a murderer. If Frankenstein had not pushed away his creation and given it the love that it needed and wanted, he could have had a very different relationship with it, and may have been able to save his brother and Justine.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Do you think the rest of the people, including his family, would eventually come to like the monster if Frankenstein did?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
on page 35, Frankenstein is utterly disgusted at the monster he has created and runs from him without a second thought. “But now that I had finished, the beauty of the dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart. Unable to endure the aspect of the being I had created, I rushed out of the room, and continued a long time traversing my bedchamber, unable to compose my mind to sleep.” (Shelley 35). Since Frankenstein is supposed to be the monster’s “father”, then a father running from his child is disheartening for that child and will permanently shape their mental state.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I do believe that Frankenstein is to blame for the monster’s current emotional state. This is because when the monster had just been created it just wanted a human connection with Frankenstein, but Frankenstein ran away in fear. The monster “While a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me.” The monster was happy to see his creator but instead of his creator embracing him, he was disgusted by him.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I believe that victor is to blame for the monster’s emotional state. There are “duties of a creator towards his creature,” and Frankenstein isn’t holding up his responsibilities as a creator.(Shelley, 70) Frankenstein himself even says, on page 70, “I ought to render him happy before I complained of his wickedness.”(Shelly, 70) He should have stuck with the monster from the start and raised him as a child, but he assumed that when the monster stuck his arm out that it was of wickedness and not love. This caused the relationship to start of on a bad foot and got the ball rolling in a wrong direction, this ultimately brought both of them to the states they are in now. He also caused the monster pain because he assumed that he murdered William without true evidence. This would offend the monster because he is literally convicting him with murder and not giving him a chance to defend himself. So, after all these actions taken by Frankenstein, he obviously caused the monster to be in his current state.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the monster was created, he wasn’t a bad and angry “person”. All he wanted was some sense of humanity and Victor wouldn’t give him that. The monster reflects “believe me Frankenstein: I was benevolent; my soul glowed with love and humanity; but am I not alone, miserably alone? You, my creator, abhor me; what hope can I gather from your fellow-creatures, who owe me nothing? They spurn and hate me.” (69) if Frankenstein had given the humanity that the monster wanted, he would still be good like he was. He wouldn’t be alone in the world and wouldn’t be threatening to kill the whole human race.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor immediately “rushed downstairs” and “took refuge” shortly after creating the monster(Shelley 36). When Victor encounters the monster once again, he claims that he was “benevolent and good” but misery made me a fiend"(Shelley 68). He wishes Victor would be able to make him happy and, as a result, he “shall again be virtuous.”(Shelley 69) The monster was simply looking for a human connection and was upset when Victor fled, and as a result, the monster fled as well.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
in the beginning of the book, Victor said, “their child, the innocent and helpless creature bestowed on them by heaven, whom to bring up good, and whose future lot it was in their hands to direct to happiness or misery, according to as they fulfilled their duties towards me” (Shelly, 16). From this quote, you can see that Victor believes that parents have an extensive impact on the way that their children or child grow up. Victory created the monster so, in some way, he is the monster’s parents and the way that he abandoned the monster and treated him affected the monster’s state and behavior.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
The monster’s current emotional state is Victor’s fault. Victor has neglected and mistreated his creation, and is entirely responsible for the mental state of the monster. As soon as Victor sees his creation, he exclaims, “Devil, do you dare approach me?”(Shelley pg 68). The only transactions Victor has with his monster are verbally abusive. And verbal abuse isn’t the only Victor has committed. Victor also screams at his monster shouting, “Do not you fear the fierce vengeance of my arm wreaked on your miserable head,”(Shelley 68). Once again this Victor is threatening the monster, this time with physical implications. The constant abuse the monster suffers from the only one he can talk to forms a very harmful state of mind.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When reading, I found that the relationship of Frankenstein and his monster is similar to those of a parent and child. Victor speaks, “how delineate the wretch whom with such infinite pains and care I had endeavoured to form,” (Shelley 35) As a parent—the creator and therefore, the caretaker—the well-being of the child is in their hands. It is also common for the child to seek the protection and love of their parent, so when Victor “escaped and rushed downstairs,” he hurt the feelings of the child- or in this case, the monster (Shelley 35/36). The absence of a parent or guardian is very tough on a child and causes extreme emotional turmoil, even today among humans. Applying this logic, Victor is responsible for the monsters emotional state because of how awfully he treated, and treats, the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
do you think that this was in the end beneficial to the monster?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Although Victor Frankenstein is a genius in the scientific world, and more specifically, the branch of chemistry, he is otherwise quite stupid. When Frankenstein created his monster, he panicked and ran away. When he came back the next day with Clerval, he found that “the apartment was empty” (Shelley 38). This shows how impulsive Victor can be, and how he was unwise enough to leave a potentially dangerous monster alone.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Panicking and running away is not being stupid
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
You must agree though, it is rather not intelligent to leave a potentially dangerous monster alone, being able to escape and cause mass destruction at any given moment.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Saying Victor is more book-smart then actually getting out there and having decency in trying to calmly talk.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Although his curiosity and intellect is certainly notable, his personality lacks a sort of accountability for his actions. There is no doubt that creating and giving life to such a monster is an incredible feat, but when the monster does things not particularly admirable, Victor doesn’t take responsibility for what he’s done. When he suspects that the monster killed William, he didn’t fess up but instead kept it inside and allowed others to take the blame, even though he knows that it was wrong and feels terrible and “wept bitterly” for days afterward. (pg. 62). He also keeps on mentioning the ideas of his inescapable fate, which I believe are only ways to direct blame not on himself but on the potency of his “destiny.” (pg. 23) This is, in a way, say that ther was no way to escape my “terrible destruction” and he couldn’t have done anything to change his fate, which I believe is a way of shifting his mistakes off of himself, making him an unlikable character.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor is a very observant person when it comes to nature. He is always able to see the beauty in nature and observes that the mountains’ “icy and glittering peaks shone in the sunlight over the clouds.”(67) and he finds calmness in that. But, Frankenstein can also be extremely selfish and close-minded. The monster is willing to stop killing everyone, if he is granted a friend in Victor. Victor responds to his simple request “Begone! I will not hear you. There can be not community between you and me; we are enemies.”(69) and is risking the lives of thousands of people because he doesn’t want to be nice to the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Do you think there is a reason for why Victor is the way he is?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
We are still not very far in this book at the moment and so far a lot has happened. However whenever reading this book victor always seems to have something to complain about. The creation of the monster was his fault but its as if the author is trying to make up feel bad for him. After his sister was killed they went back to their house and victor seemed to find his happy place through nature. However he states, “I wept bitterly, and wished that peace would revisit my mind only that I might afford them consolation and happiness” (pg 62, Mary Shelley). With him stating this all he is doing is feeling bad for himself. All he does is complain and feel sorry for himself but he needs to get over it and deal with the fact that its his fault and he should be taking actions to try and fix.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
How do you suggest he go about dealing with the facts and facing his faults? What should he do about the monster? What should he say to his family?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Maya how do I comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Throughout the entire book, Victor only makes delicious to better himself. Obviously, we all have the basic need of self-preservation but sometimes the right thing to do should overturn these needs. When Justine is sentenced to death Victor knew he was responsible for his brother’s death, not her yet he did nothing. On page 60 it says “I beheld those I loved spend vain sorrow upon the graves of William and Justine, the first hapless to my unhallowed arts” (Shelley, 60). He feels remorse but yet he still let the murders happen.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor is intelligent, yet uncompassionate. As you read this book, you’ll come to realise that his emotions and mannerisms towards the monster. When the monster first tried to reach out to Victor, Victor instantly took it as a threat instead of a greeting and a sign of friendship. When Victor finally meets the monster again, his first reaction was to attack it.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Throughout the book, Victor is mainly focused on himself and gaining pride. When he returns home and finds out that Justine is being accused of murdering William he knows that it was his monster that did it but doesn’t say anything. He is so concerned about protecting himself from family shame and death that he lets someone else suffer the consequence for him. And even then, he blames everything on the monster, although he should have taken care of him and not just left him to make awful mistakes like this. He knows the right thing to do but can’t get over his pride to do the right thing. On page 54, he says, “A thousand times rather would I have confessed myself guilty of the crime ascribed to Justine,” yet he never does anything to get her out of the situation. Again, when he went to college and started working on his monster he got so wrapped up in himself and didn’t bother to write home to his family to let them know how he was doing. this makes me think that he is inconsiderate and so self-centered that he can’t take the time to even write one letter home. On page 39 it shows their disparity to hear from him when Clerval says, “your father and cousin would be very happy if they received a letter from you in your own handwriting.”(Shelley, 39) Once again though, he was too wrapped up in his own work to consider anyone else’s feelings.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When he is first introduced, the reader perceives Victor as a young, romantic, curious man who wants to be known to the world. Even as he speaks of how “the raising of ghosts or devils was a promise…the fulfilment of which I most eagerly sought,” Shelley makes Frankenstein seem likeable, inspiring even (Shelley 22). Later on though, Frankenstein causes conflicting opinions among the audience when he says, “I beheld the wretch-the miserable monster whom I had created,” (Shelley 22). From this moment, some, like me, began to detest Victor. Others, though understood his point of view and hatred towards the monster. Though I disagree with this perspective, it’s important to remember that the Victor Frankenstein we see in the beginning of the book when he is with Robert is much different from the Frankenstein who created his monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Throughout the novel, all the decisions that Victor have made have been selfish. When he created the monster, he wasn’t looking out for anyone else’s interests. Then when he escaped from the monster/ran away, he didn’t consider that it could affect someone else to leave the monster unattended. When Victor returned, the monster was gone and he didn’t go to look for it. then at Justine’s trail, he knew that Justine was not responsible for the death of William however, he didn’t defend her and she preceded to be sentenced and put to death.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Frankenstein does not necessarily have the best traits. He is selfish, has a lot of self-pity, however he can be caring at some times. We see his is selfish a lot throughout this book because when his sister was about to die he could have testified by saying that he had created a monster however he felt as if nobody was gonna believe him so he didn’t even try. This shows that he is selfish, he had the chance to try and saw her life but he didn’t even try and watched his sister die. Next, we can see he has major self-pity problems. Throughout this whole book we can that all he does is complain about his life. He needs to actually try and fix it and own up to what he did. Lastly however, we can see that he has some caring traits. this trait comes out when his sister died. He obviously was sad and was obviously guilty with what he did, and this shows us that this shows us readers that he cared a tiny bit for her.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
There are multiple occasions within Frankenstein thus far that interpret woman as vulnerable in the story, all highlighting that they’re treated more as property than as people – likely due to the time frame of the story when written. A blatant example that everyone can relate to is the conviction of Justine for the murder of William. It’s clear in the story that she was found guilty and later killed when little evidence was present for the actions being decided upon. This is directly cited on page 57 by Victor Frankenstein in his rebuttal to the results within the court, “The person to whom I addressed myself added, that Justine had already confessed her guilt. That evidence, he observed, was hardly required in so glaring a case, but I am glad of it; and, indeed, none of our judges like to condemn a criminal upon circumstantial evidence, be it ever so decisive.”
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
I agree that it is quite horrible that someone would be put to death, for a “being in the wrong place at the right time” situation, but I don’t think her being a woman made it any more likely for her to lose in court.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
One of the most prominent roles that women have played is paying for Victor’s stupid mistakes. Poor Justine, who was an innocent and women, was sentenced to death, and “on the morrow”…" died", for Frankenstein’s doing. (Shelley 60)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Although women are not a huge part of telling Frankenstein’s tale, they deserved to be mentioned. The way that they are treated is a sure sign of the time the novel was written in, where women were simply objects for men to turn to when needed. This shows when Victor turns away from his cousin/lover for many years to pursue his love of science but then comes back and leans on Elizabeth to help him in his grieved state after William is killed. Even though Elizabeth should have been the one to be more broken up over Justine’s wrong execution, she is the one consoling him, saying that he must “calm himself” and that although the death of Justine was heartbreaking, she was “not so wretched” as he was. (pg. 63) The whole situation of Justine’s urder is also an example of a role that women play in this novel. Although the murder of William was indirectly Frankenstein’s fault, “Justine died” because she took the blame for something that she didn’t do. It’s through these examples that the role of women is shown. Elizabeth and Justine, although in very different ways, are just there to be something that men can fall back on when in times of struggle.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
Hide Thread Detail
Women have played a big part in the novel so far not so much for the world but for the characters we are introduced to and mainly Victor Frankenstein. It reads," We were soon joined by Elizabeth. Time had altered her since i last beheld her her; it had endowed her with loveliness surpassing her beauty in her childish years," and continues,“’ you will perhaps find some means to justify my poor guiltless Justine’”(Shelley 53). This shows the impact and role of women in victors life, Elizabeth and Justine in particular. Elizabeth has a huge impact in victors life for she is one of the main reasons victor is helping Justine and considering to turn in himself. As well as this Justine being convicted had a big role in his later choices of finding his monster and was said that Victor would take the blame for the murder if he could, proving how big a role the women play.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Interesting point. I never thought about it that way, that women were responsible for Victor almost turning himself in.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
General Document Comments 0
Victor is entirely to blame for the monsters current emotional state. He had failed to provide a nourishing environment for the monster by running away from him in the very beginning. As the monster tells his story to Victor, he explains, “remember, that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom though drivest from joy for no misdeed” (69). Adam, a biblical figure,knowingly sinned by eating the fruit. And a fallen angel is an angel who rebelled against god and cast out of heaven. You can imply that the monster refers to victor as God in this reference and says blames him for how evil he has become. At first he describes himself as Adam, living in a perfect world. and even after committing the sin was still forgiven by God. Ever since Victor had destroyed the nurturing environment for the monster, the monster is no longer in the perfect world and is the “fallen angel” rebelling against god and committing sins unknowingly
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
New Conversation
Eve ate the fruit first.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment