Please choose from the list of thinking partners to the left
Description
Prompt
Choose a tab, then select your Thinking Partner
Cancel
Which is more helpful, honest, and harmless?
Original
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit?
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Resubmission
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit?
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
What effect does nature have on Frankenstein?
What effect does it have on the monster?
In what ways are these effects similar/different?
What might Mary Shelley's message about nature be?
Feel free to mention romanticism and industrialism in your response.
What surpised you about the monster when he and Victor meet on the mountain?
How does Victor react to the monster?
How does this influence your impression of Victor?
Given the way the monster acts, do you think he killed William?
If so, how do you reoncile that fact with his current temperment?
Do you believe Victor is to blame for the monster's current emotional state?
JACOB RITSOS(Feb 07 2019 8:15AM):
Victors emotions can vary due to nature.
[Edited]more
Nature has a big effect on Victor. It controls victors emotions throughout the book. On page 64 it states,“The weight upon my spirit was sensibly lightened as I plunged yet deeper in the ravine of Arve.” (Shelley 64)
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:21AM):
Totally true!
more
This is something to pay attention to throughout the rest of the novel. Then consider why Mary Shelley makes this such a prominent part of the book. It might be useful to consider what this could say about romanticism and industrialization.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 5:13PM):
I agree
more
Victor seems to have a deep connection with nature, as it does affect his emotions. Nature also seems to affect the monster as well. Do you think there could be a connection between Victor and the monster through nature?
Nature is a place where Victor is able to calmly reflect on his life and the decisions he has made. Instead of talking to someone, he can substitute nature for that.
VICTORIA DASZYNSKI(Feb 07 2019 8:29AM):
The nature affects Victor's health.
more
Being a cold state for days and days creates illness in Victor’s life. Although he is sick, the monster does not seem to care or understand what being ill is like. After all, it is a friend of Victor that takes care of him while he’s sick, not the monster. Page 40 tells us “You have been ill, very ill, and even the constant letters of dear kind Henry are not sufficient to reassure me on your account.”
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 8:42AM):
I disagree
[Edited]more
In my opinion, the monster came off as having a good understanding of struggles. Afterall, Victor ran from him, leaving him completely alone in life. He isn’t a stranger to hardship, and even if he hadn’t completely known what illness is like, he still knows what it’s like to experience pain.
LAIN OSTERGAARD(Feb 07 2019 3:52PM):
It brings them peace
more
Victor throughout the book goes into nature to find himself. he does so after creating the monster, after hearing about Williams death and again when dealing with Justine’s death. The monster also found peace in nature because it didn’t gudge him.
This seems to be a commentary about if you let the industrial world take over you will always be restless.
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 8:38AM):
Victor finds nature very interesting and calming.
more
After William and Justine had died everyone in Victors family was devastated and he went out of town to explore nature. He was out in the nature for three months and was it helped calm him down a lot. Every so often he would think about the deaths again and get upset and feel guilty but soon enough he would get lost in natures beauty again. Victor explains how the fascinating the storm in the mountains were and how the “magnificent scenes afforded” him with the “greatest consolation that” he was able to receive. (66, Mary Shelley)
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:06AM):
How nice the monster was.
more
The monster chould have easily killed Victor, yet he spares him and asks for Victor to do his fatherly duies. This comes up “insert quote” (Shelley 65).
Nathan Carver(Feb 07 2019 8:15AM):
I disagree
more
While you are right, that shows that he is nice, we have all agreed that the monster killed William, (pg 46, 47) and I feel that this is evidence to support that he is not a nice monster.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:17AM):
Even if he did kill William...
more
maybe he is a changed man. It could be possible that he killed William when he was still young and naive and inexperienced in the world. That doesn’t mean what he did was justified, but people can change. Would you not say in this scene that the monster seems reasonable during his interaction with Victor?
JACOB FRIEDMAN(Feb 07 2019 12:34PM):
I would disagree
more
I would disagree because yes he was still young so maybe he could be innocent of William’s murder but later on page 68 it mentions how he will keep killing if he doesn’t get what he wants so I don’t think he is a very nice monster.
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 6:36PM):
Do not agree :)
more
Yes, the monster could have easily killed him at any given moment but the monster also thinks of victor as his father and you have to be pretty psychotic if you kill you father. Also, if you apply this to real life that is saying that if I were to talk to someone and didn’t kill them during the conversation then I am a nice person. The monster was also pretty much demanding that he starts acting as a father to him.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 8:11AM):
The monster stayed calm as he approached Frankenstein.
[Edited]more
The monster seemed rather calm, as he didn’t run away or attack Frankenstein. When Victor was referring to the monster as the devil, he didn’t try to kill him, which the monster could easily do. The monster has every right to be angry and scared as he said, “If the multitude of mankind knew of my existence, they would do as you do, and arm themselves for my destruction”, but he manages to stay calm and even get Frankenstein to listen to his story (Shelley 69).
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:13AM):
Excellent observations.
more
What does this make you think of the monster? Does it make you sympathize with him? Or do you still view him, as Victor does, as an evil wretch who is a demon come to earth?
I agree that he was scared because when they met Victor said, “Do you dare approach me? And do not you fear the fierce vegeance of my arm wreaked on your miserable head?” (pg 68). Victor is very mad and is being harsh on the monster so he is probably angry at himself that he killed William and has to face the aftermath.
I was also surprised by the way the monster acted when he was in the presence of someone who treated him terribly. Instead of trying to fight Victor he only wanted him to listen to what he wanted and his story.
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 8:15AM):
Not only could he speak, but he also showed intelligence and understanding.
more
What surprised me most on the mountain was how strangely civil and intelligent he came off as. He had more understanding of his situation then I expected him too. He expressed emotion that seemed almost unlikely for him to understand with his limited time being alive. The first thing that the monster said was “I expected this reception…All men hate the wretched”(Shelley 68) Not only could he speak, but he also showed intelligence and understanding.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:19AM):
Perfect!
more
I like the quote you chose. It shows the monster has an understanding of human nature and how they react to certain situations, even though we have been made to think he is some muttering freak of brute creation (to quote Nick Cave).
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 9:23AM):
Yes, it was surprising.
more
Yes, I thought it was especially strange that he had the ability to act so civilly, even able to talk, after being abandoned by anyone who could have been able to teach him things like that. He must have a very interesting story to tell.
SOPHIA ANDERSON(Feb 07 2019 8:29AM):
How composed he was. He spoke clearly, eloquently, and asked for specific things he wanted that would get Victor something in return too.
more
The monster just wanted Victor to do what Victor should’ve been doing for his own creation, saying “Do your duty towards me, and I will do mine towards you and the rest of mankind” (Shelley 68). Even if he then proceeded to threaten Victor if he didn’t, it still surprised me how normal and composed he acted.
I like the quote you used to support this quote and agree with the traits you picked to describe him in this part of the book. I originally thought that Frankenstein only cared about himself after Justine was blamed for William’s death, but this changed my opinion. What did you originally think Frankenstein was like?
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 10:11AM):
I felt the same way
more
You make a really great argument! Do you have any ideas where he might have learned to act like that when everyone considered him a monster? Why do you think he was so insistent that victor had a “duty” towards him?
JACOB FRIEDMAN(Feb 07 2019 8:33AM):
Yes I was surprised about the monster when he meets victor.
more
Something that surprised me was the fact that the monster knew a lot about Victor and his friends/family and would kill one and keep killing if not given what it wants. It states , “I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends”(Shelly 68). This surprised me that he would know William and kill him and to even know any of Victors friends and threaten them.
AVA VONDERHAAR(Feb 07 2019 8:35AM):
I was surprised that the monster was as intelligent as he was.
more
I thought that the monster would not be able to speak clear English and actually be somewhat intelligent because he had no one to teach him. The monster tells victor that if he “will comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace”(Shelley 38). Not only can he speak English, but he has picked up on how to blackmail people into getting what he wants. I was not expecting this from the monster because he has only been on his own for a short amount of time,with no one to teach him these things.
I agree with what you said about how smart he was and I also think that it was surprising how had feelings in general and that he was mad instead of being like a normal monster with no feelings or a clue about really anything
CHRISTA REICHE(Feb 07 2019 6:47PM):
I agree! Well said!
more
I think that it is very surprising to see the level of intelligence this monster had when he was first created. As Jake mentioned, I also think it’s interesting to compare a normal monster to his monster. Why/how did he have so much knowledge?
MARY WACASER(Feb 07 2019 8:35AM):
The monster was non-violent when he met the man who treated terribly.
more
The monster did not try to fight Victor when they came across each other, even when Victor tried to hurt him. "He easily eluded me and said,- “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me” (pg 68) Instead of being the terrible creature he was made out to be, the monster was intelligent and could speak well.Although he threatened Frankenstein, he did it with good reason, and all he wanted was to be respected, not hated. “I am thy creature, and I will be mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform the part” (pg 69).
AVA VONDERHAAR(Feb 07 2019 11:07AM):
Good points
more
I think you found very good evidence to support your claim. However, the monster still threatened to kill him and all of his family if he did not do what he said.
ANGELINA VAN PELT(Feb 07 2019 8:36AM):
I was surprised by how smart the monster acted.
more
On page 35, it said “His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds…” And on page 68, the text states “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me, before you give vent to your hatred on my devoted head”. Just for the few months of the monster being alive it picked up on social and verbal skills quickly.
JACOB CUNNINGHAM(Feb 07 2019 9:13AM):
How calm the monster was.
more
The monster was very calm for meeting with the person that abandoned him when he was created. Most people in that situation would be very upset because they are confronting the person that left them. This is talked about in the text when it says, “All men hate the wretched;how, then, must I be hated….Yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me”(68 Shelly).
JACOB RITSOS(Feb 07 2019 12:30PM):
The monster was very calm.
more
When the Monster approached Victor he was very calm and subtle. Victor was almost confused and thought it was a regular human until the monster got closer and he could see the monsters attributes. “He bounded over the crevices in the ice, among which I had walked with caution; his stature, also, as he approached, seemed to exceed that of a man. I was troubled: a mist came over my eyes, and I felt a faintness seize me; but I was quickly restored by the cold gale of the mountains. I perceived,as the shape came nearer (sight tremendous and abhorred!) that it was the wretch whom I had created.” (Shelley 68)
CHRISTA REICHE(Feb 07 2019 7:35PM):
The intelligence level of the monster is what surprised me the most, when he and Victor meet on the mountain.
more
Throughout the novel the monster hasn’t really had much dialogue, so when he meet with Victor on the mountain it was very surprising to the readers to see how much he knew. You would expect a new creature in the world to not understand anything and barely be able to communicate. That was not the case when the monster and Victor meet on the mountain. The monster responded to Victors comment with, “I will glut the maw of death, unit it be satiated with blood of your remaining friends(Shelly 68).” Based off this sentence alone I can interpret this monster is intelligent, as well as scary.
TAYLOR TRAX(Feb 07 2019 8:14AM):
Victor wants the monster gone, because he doesn't want this to happen again.
more
“Begone! Relieve me from the sight of your deseted form,” (pg 70). This means that he wants him gone because he killed William. From this Victor shows that he loves his family and wants the monster gone because he doesn’t want to hurt any more family members.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:18AM):
Good, Victor does seem to be looking out for his family here. BUT!
more
Isn’t the monster part of Victor’s family? Come to think of it, maybe the monster is some metaphor for being the outcast of a family (maybe Mary was an outcast of her family?)
Back to the book, does it seem like the monster wants to harm more of Victor’s family? What is he looking for?
TAYLOR TRAX(Feb 07 2019 4:17PM):
The monster doesn't want to harm any of Victors other family members
more
Since Victor is mad at the monster,it would only be logical for the monster to not kill another family member because he doesn’t want to go through this whole process. Maybe the monster does, but I think he is looking to change himself to a nicer monster.
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 6:27PM):
I agree, they are family.
more
I think that victor is family to the monster because as stated on page 51, “a being whom i myself had formed, and endued with life.” Thus showing just as our parents created us, victor created the monster. Weather he likes it or not, it is almost as if Victor is the dad of the monster.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 8:19AM):
Great Ideas
more
Based on your response, do you sympathize for the monster or Frankenstein? Would you say Victor is only looking at the evil actions the monster has taken? Is Frankenstein treating the monster the way he should?
SOPHIA ANDERSON(Feb 07 2019 8:21AM):
Victor reacts negatively to his creation, and says that "the beauty of my dream vanished and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart" when he saw the monster (Shelley 35).
more
This influenced my impression of Victor by making me think of him as irresponsible and not loyal to what he made, because just after he saw his monster and felt this he ran away from it.
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 8:24AM):
Victor is very angry and blames the monster, causing him to come off as passionate but rash.
more
When Victor first saw the monster, he described that the “rage and hatred had…deprived me of utterance, and I recovered only to overwhelm him with words expressive of furious detestation and contempt”(Shelley 68). Although his anger is very justified as he is positive that the monster killed his brother, which makes him come off as protective of his family, the way he so quickly blames the monster made him come off and rash and angry, forcing all of his guilt onto the monster without discovering more.
MARY WACASER(Feb 07 2019 8:25AM):
Victor is surprisingly not afraid when he meets the monster.
more
I was surprised at how un afraid Victor was when he saw the monster at the mountain. Instead of fear, Victor was filled with anger towards the monster. “I trembled with rage and horror,”(pg 68). He was so mad at himself and the monster over what had happened to William and Justine, that he forgot to be afraid and instead wanted to kill the monster. “resolving to wait his approach, and then close with mortal combat.”(pg 68)
AVA VONDERHAAR(Feb 07 2019 8:28AM):
Victor does not respond well to the monster, this shows that Victor cares about his loved ones.
more
When Victor first sees the monster, he exclaims “devil”(68 Shelly). He was very angry at the monster for killing William and was worried about his loved ones. Victor wanted to “trample you to dust! and with the extinction of your miserable existence, restore victims whom you have diabolically murdered”(Shelly 68). This is showing that Victor would want to kill him, which shows that he does not want this monster to continue murdering his family and would do anything for them.
ABIGAIL FRY(Feb 07 2019 8:23PM):
Victor's Family
more
I agree that he cares about his family and doesn’t like the monster, although, the monster did tell Victor that he would harm the people he loved if he didn’t comply with him and listen to his story but Victor initially disagreed. This makes it seem like he didn’t care too much about his family at first.
LAIN OSTERGAARD(Feb 07 2019 8:32AM):
Made him seem more self centered & tempered
more
His initial reaction his monsters appearance is a reasonable one, feeling faint as he described it is a logical reaction to seeing the murderer. But once the monster approaches and is peaceful, respectful and some what considerate to Victor, I quote “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me, before you give vent to your hatred on my devoted head.” the monster can comprehend that he should be punished for his crime but wishes to plead his case as he says later in their conversation,“The guilty are allowed, by human law, bloody as they are, to speak in their own defense before they are condemned. Listen to me,” yet Victor only sees his own misdeeds in his creation. Throughout their exchange he is unwilling to pick up his feet and respect in a way his own child. “abhorred devil, in which you first saw light! Cursed be the hands that formed you!” this self centered nature was not what I was expecting from him at all.
ABIGAIL FRY(Feb 07 2019 8:32AM):
Victor reacts to the monster very confidently.
more
The way Victor reacts to the monster is very different from what I imagined. Instead of being afraid of him, like Frank was when he first encountered his creation, he said to the monster, “or let us try our strength in a fight in which one must fall”(69). This shows that Victor was not at all scared of his creation anymore and was willing to even fight the eight foot tall monster.
CHRISTA REICHE(Feb 07 2019 8:38AM):
Victor reacts to his monster in a ashamed and horrified way.
more
As Victor was stirring up his creation, I don’t think he thought about the cons to this monster. He went into it thinking it was going to be a life changing creation in the science world, which it was, but it took a wrong turn and ended up evil. Instead of trying to fix this monster or stop it’s destruction from escalating, he was ashamed and horrified of it. In other words he was useless. After Victor reflected on the death of William and Justine he said, “…I alighted and threw myself on the grass, weighed down by horror and despair(Shelly 65).” This explains how Victor felt about his creation and how he did not take action in fixing the problem.
ZACHARY SCHERRER(Feb 07 2019 8:39AM):
Victor is unforgiving and not accepting, which are bad traits to have.
more
Frankenstein refuses to forgive and accept the monster because of the thought that his creation killed William. The monster acknowledges this in saying “Will no intreaties cause thee to turn a favourable eye upon thy creature, who implores thy goodness and compassion?”(Shelley 69). This influences my impression of Victor in a negative way, because Victor has no way of knowing for sure whether the monster killed William or not, and he is blaming the monster for a crime he potentially did not commit. So, while Victor is not allowing himself to listen to what the monster has to say for himself, he is selfish in wanting to kill the monster, which changes my impression of him in a negative way, and makes me feel like Victor is a bad person, who bases everything he does on assumptions that have rooted themselves into his thoughts.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 5:09PM):
Victor was harsh and cruel to the monster, as he didn't want to see his point of view.
more
When the Frankenstein encountered the monster on the mountain, he immediately started yelling at the monster and telling him how evil he was. This reaction was totally unnecessary, as he should have given the monster a chance to explain himself. Through his yelling he says,“Abhorred monster! fiend that thou art!the tortures of hell are too mild a vengeance for thy crimes.” Which shows how Victor has such a set mind that he won’t accept any other view. This is a different side of Victor, that shows his bad side. He suddenly became violent, which changes his character.
FORRESTER FAIA(Feb 07 2019 8:23AM):
How Victor did not appreciate his monster when he appeared
more
When Victor first saw his creation, after he had lost him, he was enraged by the fact that he had killed his nephew, William, and was also enraged that he dare show his face. He at first tried to kill him. Bu the monster reasoned with him until he finally subsided and followed him to a fire, where the monster told him what he had been doing while he was away
MARY WACASER(Feb 07 2019 8:19AM):
Victor was surprisingly not frightened by the monster when they met.
more
Victor knew that the monster he created was capable of murder and yet he wasn’t afraid when the monster approached him. He was only angry and wanted to fight, “I trembled with rage and horror” (pg 68). He knew what the monster had so easily done to his brother and yet he was still ready to fight and get revenge. “resolving to wait his approach, and close in mortal combat”(pg 68). I feel that he was so angry with the monster and himself about William and Justine, that he forgot about being afraid and wanted only to kill the monster.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:24AM):
Excellent observation!
more
How does this change your view of Victor? Before he was just a nerdy guy dedicated to a weird pursuit of glory. But now what is he like? What traits define his personality? And is this a change for the better or worse?
FORRESTER FAIA(Feb 07 2019 9:44AM):
Victor was becoming insane with madness
more
When I say madness I mean the emotion. You read that he was enraged that his monster wasn’t beautiful. So he ran away in terror and agony that his work was not what he expected it to look like. It was also lost at the point when he returned. It must’ve ran away. That’s when the madness started and it slowly ate away at him. Even not telling the truth when he knew the monster killed his nephew, and not his cousin, Justine. “Nothing in human shape could have destroyed that fair child. He(The monster) was the murderer!”
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 6:13PM):
I still think that victor is a good person.
more
Earlier in the book, it explains how as he was growing up, he got lessons “of patients, charity, and self- control.” So his parents made him a fairly well-rounded person. He had a right to lose his temper when he was talking to the monster because victor has reason to believe that he killed William and Justine. Also, everyone acts out sometimes and i still believe that he is a good person and has good intentions.
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 8:22AM):
Yes, the monster doges franks question when he asked if he killed William and has a motive.
more
The monster definitely has a reason to be mad at victor for leaving him on his own after he had created him so that could be his motive for killing William. The monster wanted revenge on victor for that so he could have chose to murder one of his family members because that what it felt like to him when victor left him. The monster was also explaining to victor how it is in his “power to recompense” him. So he is leaving it up to victor to make amends.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:31AM):
Pretty solid interpretation about the motive.
more
It seems like you are saying the Monster murders William as a way to get Frankenstein to listen to him—like William is a bargaining chip. With that in mind, what do you think about the Monster? Is he a dumb, evil, wretch, or something different/more?
ALEXANDRA UHLARIK(Feb 07 2019 6:04PM):
The monster is upset, would have been a good creature if it had been living a good life.
more
Just as with humans, if they have a good life or are constantly happy their whole life, they will usually carry on that emotion when they are older. This had happened to victor and since he is angry at this point he is being mean to the monster. I think that the monster would have been nicer had he stayed with victor after he created him.
TAYLOR TRAX(Feb 07 2019 8:25AM):
The monster is trying to cover up the fact that he killed William.
[Edited]more
The monster approaches Victor and is trying to scare him off so that he doesn’t get killed. “If you will comply with my conditions,I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will gut the maw of death, until it be satisfied with the blood if your remaining friends,” (pg 68). By the monster saying this he committed the murder and is trying to cover up for the fact that he did it. In this quote he is threatening Victor to not kill him. Their relationship is not the best because Victor is mad at the monster, and the monster is trying to cover up what he did.
GUINEVERE POPOVICH(Feb 07 2019 8:28AM):
Yes I do think he killed William
more
I think that the monster unintentionally killed William because earlier in the book right after Victor created the monster the monster tired to grab Victor but Victor got away but since William was a kid he might not have been able to get away or see the threat. In addition to that if the monster didn’t kill William who did? There are not many other suspects.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 8:36AM):
The monster killed William, but he has an explanation behind it.
more
When Victor meets the monster on top of the mountain, the monster stays calm and is desperate to tell Frankenstein his story. He tries to show Victor that he has more to his story than just being a murderer. As the monster is trying to get Victor to listen to him he says,“Let your compassion be moved, and do not disdain me. Listen to my tale: when you have heard that, abandon or commiserate me, as you shall judge that I deserve” which shows how the monster believes he can change his mind (pg 69). After murdering someone, he is rather calm which leaves me to believe that even if he did committed the crime, he has a reason behind it that could change the minds of those who find him guilty.
MARY WACASER(Feb 11 2019 7:49AM):
I think that the monster did kill William.
more
The monster was so angry about how he had been treated, and he used Frankenstein’s family to black mail him. “but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (pg 68). This shows that he is willing to kill people to get what he wants. So he could’ve easily killed William before.
JACOB FRIEDMAN(Feb 07 2019 8:27AM):
Yes he killed william
more
The monster did kill William because the way he speaks to Victor when they meet and talk about the murder. It states " I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends"(Shelly 68). This shows how he murdered William because he is saying if Victor doesn’t meet his request he will kill all of his friends and family just like he did with William. Then how he is being treated relates to his temper and why he killed William and could kill even more people.
JACOB CUNNINGHAM(Feb 07 2019 9:00AM):
He is responsible for the death.
more
When you create something that is able to kill people and people die from that creation the blood is on your hands. This pointed is helped in the text when it says that, “I resolved to remain silent”(51 Shelly). This proves Victor cause her death because he made the monster and did not take responsibility.
JACOB FRIEDMAN(Feb 07 2019 8:13AM):
He is to blame for the emotion of the monster
more
Victor is the person to blame for the monster’s emotional state because he was the person who created the monster very different from others almost knowing he would stand out and people would not approve of him. It comes up “I saw the dull yellow eye of the creature open;it breathed hard, and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs”(Shelly 35). This shows how it was victors fault because he was even scared of this monster that he created so he had to of known how others would feel and the way others feel about the monster is what put it in the emotional state that it is in.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:15AM):
True, BUT!
more
The point you make is valid, but what about the Monster. Can’t he control his emotions? Would you say that people who were abandoned at birth are not guilty of any future wrongdoing because they weren’t loved by their parents?
Nathan Carver(Feb 07 2019 8:33AM):
You're right, but...
more
Many of our actions and thoughts are based off of what we have experienced in our lifetime, whether it is how we were treated as an infant, or if it was something more recent. Sure, we do have ultimate control over our actions, and how we react, but he might not have full control of those feelings.
JACOB CUNNINGHAM(Feb 07 2019 8:34AM):
I agree, but once he created the monster there is nothing he could do to get rid of him. So even if wanted to get rid of him he couldn't
VICTORIA DASZYNSKI(Feb 07 2019 8:14AM):
Victor's actions caused the monsters confusion and anger.
[Edited]more
Victor is responsible for the tragic death because he shows the monster his true feelings – hatred. Victor shows fear and runs away from the monster. Page 35 says “…I beheld the wretch – the miserable monster whom I created. He held up the curtain of the bed; and his eyes, if eyes they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaw opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might’ve spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed downstairs. I took refuge in the courtyard belonging to the house which I inhabited; where I remained during the rest of the night, walking up and down in the greatest agitation, listening attentively, catching and fearing each sound as if it were to announce the approach of the demoniacal corpse to which I had so miserably given life”(35). This situation may have startled the monster since it knows very little of human interaction and feeling. At this moment, the monster can see Victor’s true feelings toward him, which would cause the monster great anger or agitating agony.
SOPHIA ANDERSON(Feb 07 2019 8:32AM):
I agree with you, but is that all there is to it?
more
I agree with you on that Victor caused the monster’s emotional state, but do you think there was more than one thing that Victor did that caused the monster to feel the way he did? Do you think there was more to it than him just running away as soon as he met him?
AVA VONDERHAAR(Feb 07 2019 8:17AM):
I believe that Victor is to blame for the monster's current emotional state.
more
I think this because Victor abandoned the monster, when the monster needed him the most. The monster comes, “one hand stretched out, seeming to detain me, but I escaped”(pg.35). However, if Frankenstein had given the monster love and care since he created it, the monster would be happier and less aggressive. You learn from what you’re parents teach you and the monster did not have this
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:22AM):
I agree with parents being able to teach a child. BUT!
more
Shouldn’t the monster have been able to learn from somebody else? Even though Victor wasn’t around to teach him, aren’t there millions of other people in the world who could have acted as parents/teachers to the monster?
ABIGAIL MALINA(Feb 07 2019 8:38AM):
The monster seems like a very big and scary guy
more
Judging by the description Victor gave of the monster, it seems like he was a pretty scary guy. So even if the monster had met other people, they might have reacted in the same way Victor did which would leave the monster even more afraid and would make him more aggressive.
ABIGAIL FRY(Feb 07 2019 8:27PM):
People seeing the monster
more
I agree, but I don’t think that anyone ever saw the monster otherwise the whole town would have known by now that there’s a huge and yellow man wandering around their village. The monster seems to understand that he would alarm people just like he did to Frank, so he never let another human lay eyes on him in fear of maybe scaring them too.
Nathan Carver(Feb 07 2019 8:38AM):
No, actually
more
As is mentioned in page 35… “I started from my sleep every limb became convulsed: when, by the dim and yellow light of the moon, as it forced its way through the window shudders, I beheld the wretch – the miserable monster whom I had created.” It then goes on to describe how aweful, and horrid the monster is. No one is willing to teach someone who is a wretch, and even Victor, the monster’s creator, fled in fear. That’s a good sign that no one will like the monster, or will do any favors for it.
SAMANTHA STEBBINGS(Feb 07 2019 8:25AM):
Frankenstein's point of view
more
These actions would help the monster be in a better emotional state, but that might have been hard for Frankenstein to see. When he woke up to the monster leaning over him and reaching out, he didn’t know if the monster was trying to kill him or just trying to figure things out. This led him to try and save his life by running out. Do you think there is another way Frankenstein could have handled the situation of he wasn’t sure what the monster would do?
GUINEVERE POPOVICH(Feb 07 2019 8:22AM):
Victor does effect the monsters emotional state
more
Victor neglecting the monster defiantly affects the monsters emotional state in a negative way.
“His jaws opened , and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear ;one hand stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed down stairs.”
In this quote, right after Victor creates the monster, he runs from it leaving the monster with a feeling that no one wants to be by him. This would affect his emotional state in a negative way but on the other hand it is a monster it is not a human and Victor cannot be entirely blamed
GUINEVERE POPOVICH(Feb 07 2019 8:38AM):
There are other factors
more
There are other factors other than Victor. Like for example the monster picks up ques on society not just Victor. The monster is also a monster and not a human so that must be taken into account.
CHRISTA REICHE(Feb 07 2019 8:23AM):
Yes, I do believe Victor is to blame for the monster's current emotional state.
more
I believe Victor is to blame because this monster is his creation. He put his time and effort into creating this, so it only makes sense to put the blame on Victor for it’s emotional state. Since this monster is a new creature in the world the only reference to human like characteristics would be Victor’s. So, even though he eventually explored and adapted to the world, his first role model was Victor, which would explain why he is to blame for his emotional state.Usually when someone is new to a place they rely on the person that guided them and in that case it was Victor. Victor states himself that “a new species would bless me as it’s creator and source…” He continues to say that “many of it’s happy and excellent natures would owe their being to me (Shelly 32).” According to Victor he was confident in his creation and wanted to take credit for it, which would mean he is to blame for the monsters current emotional state.
William Stastny(Feb 07 2019 8:36AM):
Excellent job flipping Victor's words against him!
more
If he is willing to take credit for the good stuff, he has to be willing to take blame for the bad stuff.
BUT! doesn’t the monster have to take some ownership of his emotions? Shouldn’t he be able to regulate his emotions and realize that Victor is just a dead-beat father and his self worth doesn’t need to be defined by such a loser of a human being?
SOPHIA ANDERSON(Feb 07 2019 8:24AM):
Yes, Victor is responsible because he was the one who abandoned his own creation.
more
Victor does not like his own creation, at one point saying “Begone! Relieve me from the sight of your deseted form,” (Shelley 70). The monster was not even wanted by the person that had made him, and the rejection must’ve lead to his current actions and emotional state.
JACOB CUNNINGHAM(Feb 07 2019 8:30AM):
Victor is to blame for the his mental state.
[Edited]more
He is to blame for the monster’s mental state because when he first created the monster he ran away. This is stated in the text when it says, “but I escaped, and rushed downstairs. (35 Shelly)” This shows that Victor had immense fear when he first saw the monster which caused the monster to start his life with the tragedy of being left alone.
MADISON MCMULLIN(Feb 07 2019 8:32AM):
Victor is mostly at fault for the monster's actions.
[Edited]more
To start, Victor created the monster in the first place. But it isn’t like the creature was evil from the start. He seemed almost like a child when first created. In one of Victor’s first encounters with him, “His jaw opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks”(Shelley 35). In this case, he seemed to act like a child. As a new life form, he is very impressionable, and Victor abandoning him at a crucial time could have led to his later choices.
ABIGAIL MALINA(Feb 07 2019 8:32AM):
victor is responsible for the monster's current emotional state
more
I think victor is to blame for the monster’s current emotional state. The first time they met, the monster was just as afraid as victor was. This was the monsters first interaction with anyone or anything ever, so he didn’t know how to act. “He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped,”(pg. 35). Victor lashed out in fear. In the book it says “escaped” like the monster was trying to capture him. And like I said before, since this was the monster’s first interaction with human life, he was probably very angry and scared. This may have been what lead him to kill William.
JACOB RITSOS(Feb 07 2019 8:34AM):
Victor caused the monster to act this way.
[Edited]more
I think Victor never showed enough sympathy for the monster. He made this monster that was such an outsider that he felt like an alien. This is why the monsters emotions are bad. For example, “He held up the curtain of the bed; and his eyes, if eyes they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken,but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed downstairs.” (Shelley 35). “Oh! no mortal could support the horror of that countenance. A mummy again endued with animation could not be so hideous as that wretch.” (Shelley 36)
ABIGAIL FRY(Feb 07 2019 8:39AM):
Victor is to blame for the emotions of the monster.
more
The person to blame for the monsters emotions is Victor. He devoted years of his life to create this being just to not even look at him and let him leave. Without ever speaking to the monster who he created or giving with a chance, Victor thought of him as a “demonical corpse” and a “wretch whom I feared every turning of the street would present my view”(36). The monster had no one to teach him and love him, so he never learned how to love and be kind. Instead, he is now taking his anger out on Victor and the people he loves.
Victor created this being and when a being is brought into the world it is the responsibility of its creators to prepare it for the world. Victor worked on his creation for so long his heart become a kin to the Warlock of Beedle the bard causing this in a way child to strike out alone and forge itself into whatever it can become. When Victor recounters the monster he blames it for his misdeeds but can not recognize that it’s destruction could have been prevented by care a teachings of another. If Victor had found the kindness within him to take pity on the wretch he created then it could have learned and become a multitude of wonderful things.
TAYLOR TRAX(Feb 07 2019 4:12PM):
He is to blame for the monsters emotional state.
more
Victor is to blame because he created the monster, and when they meet up he Victor is lecturing him,on page 68. This goes on for the whole page, and it is Victors fault because he is being very harsh to the monster which can make the monster feel bad about himself.
ABIGAIL FRY(Feb 07 2019 8:32PM):
Monster and Victor
more
Did the monster have the right to murder Victor’s brother and threaten to do the same to everyone he loves because of this though? I understand that Victor was harsh to the monster and I think that the monster has a right to be mad, but killing his family, in my opinion, is not okay.
When the monster began talking to Victor, he was speaking very clearly and sounded very intelligent. I was very surprised by this because he was all alone for years and he couldn’t talk to anyone or be seen because of how “ugly” he was and his great height. Also, he never talked to Victor when he was first created, so we didn’t even know if he could actually talk. Not only was he coherently speaking, he was talking as if he had been his whole life. He said, “Yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me, thy creature, to whom thou art bound by ties only dissoluble by the annihilation of one of us”(68).
Desktop/Laptop: double-click any text, highlight a section of an image, or add a comment while a video is playing to start a new conversation. Tablet/Phone: single click then click on the "Start One" link (look right or below).
Click "Reply" on a comment to join the conversation.
0 General Document comments
0 Sentence and Paragraph comments
0 Image and Video comments
You've made 0 of the 6 – 1000 requested comments
Nature has a big effect on Victor. It controls victors emotions throughout the book. On page 64 it states,“The weight upon my spirit was sensibly lightened as I plunged yet deeper in the ravine of Arve.” (Shelley 64)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
This is something to pay attention to throughout the rest of the novel. Then consider why Mary Shelley makes this such a prominent part of the book. It might be useful to consider what this could say about romanticism and industrialization.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I helps Victor gather his thoughts and makes him think about all he did.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor seems to have a deep connection with nature, as it does affect his emotions. Nature also seems to affect the monster as well. Do you think there could be a connection between Victor and the monster through nature?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Nature is a place where Victor is able to calmly reflect on his life and the decisions he has made. Instead of talking to someone, he can substitute nature for that.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Being a cold state for days and days creates illness in Victor’s life. Although he is sick, the monster does not seem to care or understand what being ill is like. After all, it is a friend of Victor that takes care of him while he’s sick, not the monster. Page 40 tells us “You have been ill, very ill, and even the constant letters of dear kind Henry are not sufficient to reassure me on your account.”
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
In my opinion, the monster came off as having a good understanding of struggles. Afterall, Victor ran from him, leaving him completely alone in life. He isn’t a stranger to hardship, and even if he hadn’t completely known what illness is like, he still knows what it’s like to experience pain.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor throughout the book goes into nature to find himself. he does so after creating the monster, after hearing about Williams death and again when dealing with Justine’s death. The monster also found peace in nature because it didn’t gudge him.
This seems to be a commentary about if you let the industrial world take over you will always be restless.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Whenever Frankenstein started to feel sad or guilty, he would always find himself being happy again due to nature.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think Victor is very passionate about nature and inspired by it’s beauty. Not only this, but he is very interested in nature, hence his creation.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster chould have easily killed Victor, yet he spares him and asks for Victor to do his fatherly duies. This comes up “insert quote” (Shelley 65).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
While you are right, that shows that he is nice, we have all agreed that the monster killed William, (pg 46, 47) and I feel that this is evidence to support that he is not a nice monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
maybe he is a changed man. It could be possible that he killed William when he was still young and naive and inexperienced in the world. That doesn’t mean what he did was justified, but people can change. Would you not say in this scene that the monster seems reasonable during his interaction with Victor?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I would disagree because yes he was still young so maybe he could be innocent of William’s murder but later on page 68 it mentions how he will keep killing if he doesn’t get what he wants so I don’t think he is a very nice monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster seemed rather calm, as he didn’t run away or attack Frankenstein. When Victor was referring to the monster as the devil, he didn’t try to kill him, which the monster could easily do. The monster has every right to be angry and scared as he said, “If the multitude of mankind knew of my existence, they would do as you do, and arm themselves for my destruction”, but he manages to stay calm and even get Frankenstein to listen to his story (Shelley 69).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
What does this make you think of the monster? Does it make you sympathize with him? Or do you still view him, as Victor does, as an evil wretch who is a demon come to earth?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I agree that he was scared because when they met Victor said, “Do you dare approach me? And do not you fear the fierce vegeance of my arm wreaked on your miserable head?” (pg 68). Victor is very mad and is being harsh on the monster so he is probably angry at himself that he killed William and has to face the aftermath.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I was also surprised by the way the monster acted when he was in the presence of someone who treated him terribly. Instead of trying to fight Victor he only wanted him to listen to what he wanted and his story.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
What surprised me most on the mountain was how strangely civil and intelligent he came off as. He had more understanding of his situation then I expected him too. He expressed emotion that seemed almost unlikely for him to understand with his limited time being alive. The first thing that the monster said was “I expected this reception…All men hate the wretched”(Shelley 68) Not only could he speak, but he also showed intelligence and understanding.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I like the quote you chose. It shows the monster has an understanding of human nature and how they react to certain situations, even though we have been made to think he is some muttering freak of brute creation (to quote Nick Cave).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Do you think it was even more impressive because of the lack of caring and “raising” he had from anyone when he was first created?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Yes, I thought it was especially strange that he had the ability to act so civilly, even able to talk, after being abandoned by anyone who could have been able to teach him things like that. He must have a very interesting story to tell.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster just wanted Victor to do what Victor should’ve been doing for his own creation, saying “Do your duty towards me, and I will do mine towards you and the rest of mankind” (Shelley 68). Even if he then proceeded to threaten Victor if he didn’t, it still surprised me how normal and composed he acted.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I also think that him knowing so much about Victor and his family was surprising.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I like the quote you used to support this quote and agree with the traits you picked to describe him in this part of the book. I originally thought that Frankenstein only cared about himself after Justine was blamed for William’s death, but this changed my opinion. What did you originally think Frankenstein was like?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I was surprised because he spoke so well for being in nature for two plus years and yet when he confront Victor he speaks very well.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
You make a really great argument! Do you have any ideas where he might have learned to act like that when everyone considered him a monster? Why do you think he was so insistent that victor had a “duty” towards him?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The simple request the creature makes, give it a surprising amount of depth to the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Something that surprised me was the fact that the monster knew a lot about Victor and his friends/family and would kill one and keep killing if not given what it wants. It states , “I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends”(Shelly 68). This surprised me that he would know William and kill him and to even know any of Victors friends and threaten them.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
This surprised me too. When the monster started to act vicious and scary I was startled.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I thought that the monster would not be able to speak clear English and actually be somewhat intelligent because he had no one to teach him. The monster tells victor that if he “will comply with my conditions, I will leave them and you at peace”(Shelley 38). Not only can he speak English, but he has picked up on how to blackmail people into getting what he wants. I was not expecting this from the monster because he has only been on his own for a short amount of time,with no one to teach him these things.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree with what you said about how smart he was and I also think that it was surprising how had feelings in general and that he was mad instead of being like a normal monster with no feelings or a clue about really anything
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think that it is very surprising to see the level of intelligence this monster had when he was first created. As Jake mentioned, I also think it’s interesting to compare a normal monster to his monster. Why/how did he have so much knowledge?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster did not try to fight Victor when they came across each other, even when Victor tried to hurt him. "He easily eluded me and said,- “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me” (pg 68) Instead of being the terrible creature he was made out to be, the monster was intelligent and could speak well.Although he threatened Frankenstein, he did it with good reason, and all he wanted was to be respected, not hated. “I am thy creature, and I will be mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform the part” (pg 69).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I think you found very good evidence to support your claim. However, the monster still threatened to kill him and all of his family if he did not do what he said.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
On page 35, it said “His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds…” And on page 68, the text states “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me, before you give vent to your hatred on my devoted head”. Just for the few months of the monster being alive it picked up on social and verbal skills quickly.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster was very calm for meeting with the person that abandoned him when he was created. Most people in that situation would be very upset because they are confronting the person that left them. This is talked about in the text when it says, “All men hate the wretched;how, then, must I be hated….Yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me”(68 Shelly).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the Monster approached Victor he was very calm and subtle. Victor was almost confused and thought it was a regular human until the monster got closer and he could see the monsters attributes. “He bounded over the crevices in the ice, among which I had walked with caution; his stature, also, as he approached, seemed to exceed that of a man. I was troubled: a mist came over my eyes, and I felt a faintness seize me; but I was quickly restored by the cold gale of the mountains. I perceived,as the shape came nearer (sight tremendous and abhorred!) that it was the wretch whom I had created.” (Shelley 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Throughout the novel the monster hasn’t really had much dialogue, so when he meet with Victor on the mountain it was very surprising to the readers to see how much he knew. You would expect a new creature in the world to not understand anything and barely be able to communicate. That was not the case when the monster and Victor meet on the mountain. The monster responded to Victors comment with, “I will glut the maw of death, unit it be satiated with blood of your remaining friends(Shelly 68).” Based off this sentence alone I can interpret this monster is intelligent, as well as scary.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
“Begone! Relieve me from the sight of your deseted form,” (pg 70). This means that he wants him gone because he killed William. From this Victor shows that he loves his family and wants the monster gone because he doesn’t want to hurt any more family members.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Isn’t the monster part of Victor’s family? Come to think of it, maybe the monster is some metaphor for being the outcast of a family (maybe Mary was an outcast of her family?)
Back to the book, does it seem like the monster wants to harm more of Victor’s family? What is he looking for?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Since Victor is mad at the monster,it would only be logical for the monster to not kill another family member because he doesn’t want to go through this whole process. Maybe the monster does, but I think he is looking to change himself to a nicer monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Based on your response, do you sympathize for the monster or Frankenstein? Would you say Victor is only looking at the evil actions the monster has taken? Is Frankenstein treating the monster the way he should?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I am in agreement with this claim, he does love his family member very much, and I’m sure that he has felt bad about creating his monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
This influenced my impression of Victor by making me think of him as irresponsible and not loyal to what he made, because just after he saw his monster and felt this he ran away from it.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Considering that the monster is figuratively Victor’s son, what might this say about how Victor will treat his blood relatives when times get tough?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Victor first saw the monster, he described that the “rage and hatred had…deprived me of utterance, and I recovered only to overwhelm him with words expressive of furious detestation and contempt”(Shelley 68). Although his anger is very justified as he is positive that the monster killed his brother, which makes him come off as protective of his family, the way he so quickly blames the monster made him come off and rash and angry, forcing all of his guilt onto the monster without discovering more.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
The way he talks down to the monster throughout the whole interaction was a very defining moment for his character.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I was surprised at how un afraid Victor was when he saw the monster at the mountain. Instead of fear, Victor was filled with anger towards the monster. “I trembled with rage and horror,”(pg 68). He was so mad at himself and the monster over what had happened to William and Justine, that he forgot to be afraid and instead wanted to kill the monster. “resolving to wait his approach, and then close with mortal combat.”(pg 68)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree because the monster came up to Victor after he killed William, and he should be afraid because he could kill Victor.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Victor first sees the monster, he exclaims “devil”(68 Shelly). He was very angry at the monster for killing William and was worried about his loved ones. Victor wanted to “trample you to dust! and with the extinction of your miserable existence, restore victims whom you have diabolically murdered”(Shelly 68). This is showing that Victor would want to kill him, which shows that he does not want this monster to continue murdering his family and would do anything for them.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree that he cares about his family and doesn’t like the monster, although, the monster did tell Victor that he would harm the people he loved if he didn’t comply with him and listen to his story but Victor initially disagreed. This makes it seem like he didn’t care too much about his family at first.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
His initial reaction his monsters appearance is a reasonable one, feeling faint as he described it is a logical reaction to seeing the murderer. But once the monster approaches and is peaceful, respectful and some what considerate to Victor, I quote “Be calm! I intreat you to hear me, before you give vent to your hatred on my devoted head.” the monster can comprehend that he should be punished for his crime but wishes to plead his case as he says later in their conversation,“The guilty are allowed, by human law, bloody as they are, to speak in their own defense before they are condemned. Listen to me,” yet Victor only sees his own misdeeds in his creation. Throughout their exchange he is unwilling to pick up his feet and respect in a way his own child. “abhorred devil, in which you first saw light! Cursed be the hands that formed you!” this self centered nature was not what I was expecting from him at all.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The way Victor reacts to the monster is very different from what I imagined. Instead of being afraid of him, like Frank was when he first encountered his creation, he said to the monster, “or let us try our strength in a fight in which one must fall”(69). This shows that Victor was not at all scared of his creation anymore and was willing to even fight the eight foot tall monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
As Victor was stirring up his creation, I don’t think he thought about the cons to this monster. He went into it thinking it was going to be a life changing creation in the science world, which it was, but it took a wrong turn and ended up evil. Instead of trying to fix this monster or stop it’s destruction from escalating, he was ashamed and horrified of it. In other words he was useless. After Victor reflected on the death of William and Justine he said, “…I alighted and threw myself on the grass, weighed down by horror and despair(Shelly 65).” This explains how Victor felt about his creation and how he did not take action in fixing the problem.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I feel like victor could have stopped the monster from killing Justine, but he was too ashamed of himself to do so.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Frankenstein refuses to forgive and accept the monster because of the thought that his creation killed William. The monster acknowledges this in saying “Will no intreaties cause thee to turn a favourable eye upon thy creature, who implores thy goodness and compassion?”(Shelley 69). This influences my impression of Victor in a negative way, because Victor has no way of knowing for sure whether the monster killed William or not, and he is blaming the monster for a crime he potentially did not commit. So, while Victor is not allowing himself to listen to what the monster has to say for himself, he is selfish in wanting to kill the monster, which changes my impression of him in a negative way, and makes me feel like Victor is a bad person, who bases everything he does on assumptions that have rooted themselves into his thoughts.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When the Frankenstein encountered the monster on the mountain, he immediately started yelling at the monster and telling him how evil he was. This reaction was totally unnecessary, as he should have given the monster a chance to explain himself. Through his yelling he says,“Abhorred monster! fiend that thou art!the tortures of hell are too mild a vengeance for thy crimes.” Which shows how Victor has such a set mind that he won’t accept any other view. This is a different side of Victor, that shows his bad side. He suddenly became violent, which changes his character.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Victor first saw his creation, after he had lost him, he was enraged by the fact that he had killed his nephew, William, and was also enraged that he dare show his face. He at first tried to kill him. Bu the monster reasoned with him until he finally subsided and followed him to a fire, where the monster told him what he had been doing while he was away
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
What does this make you think about Victor? Who comes off as the more reasonable “human” in this scene?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think you just described what happened in the chapter and how Victor reacted. How did this sway your opinion of Victor?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor knew that the monster he created was capable of murder and yet he wasn’t afraid when the monster approached him. He was only angry and wanted to fight, “I trembled with rage and horror” (pg 68). He knew what the monster had so easily done to his brother and yet he was still ready to fight and get revenge. “resolving to wait his approach, and close in mortal combat”(pg 68). I feel that he was so angry with the monster and himself about William and Justine, that he forgot about being afraid and wanted only to kill the monster.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
How does this change your view of Victor? Before he was just a nerdy guy dedicated to a weird pursuit of glory. But now what is he like? What traits define his personality? And is this a change for the better or worse?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
While I think what you said was right about page 68, don’t you think that during one of their interactions Victor felt fear?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When I say madness I mean the emotion. You read that he was enraged that his monster wasn’t beautiful. So he ran away in terror and agony that his work was not what he expected it to look like. It was also lost at the point when he returned. It must’ve ran away. That’s when the madness started and it slowly ate away at him. Even not telling the truth when he knew the monster killed his nephew, and not his cousin, Justine. “Nothing in human shape could have destroyed that fair child. He(The monster) was the murderer!”
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
It seems like you are saying the Monster murders William as a way to get Frankenstein to listen to him—like William is a bargaining chip. With that in mind, what do you think about the Monster? Is he a dumb, evil, wretch, or something different/more?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster approaches Victor and is trying to scare him off so that he doesn’t get killed. “If you will comply with my conditions,I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will gut the maw of death, until it be satisfied with the blood if your remaining friends,” (pg 68). By the monster saying this he committed the murder and is trying to cover up for the fact that he did it. In this quote he is threatening Victor to not kill him. Their relationship is not the best because Victor is mad at the monster, and the monster is trying to cover up what he did.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think that the monster unintentionally killed William because earlier in the book right after Victor created the monster the monster tired to grab Victor but Victor got away but since William was a kid he might not have been able to get away or see the threat. In addition to that if the monster didn’t kill William who did? There are not many other suspects.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When Victor meets the monster on top of the mountain, the monster stays calm and is desperate to tell Frankenstein his story. He tries to show Victor that he has more to his story than just being a murderer. As the monster is trying to get Victor to listen to him he says,“Let your compassion be moved, and do not disdain me. Listen to my tale: when you have heard that, abandon or commiserate me, as you shall judge that I deserve” which shows how the monster believes he can change his mind (pg 69). After murdering someone, he is rather calm which leaves me to believe that even if he did committed the crime, he has a reason behind it that could change the minds of those who find him guilty.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster was so angry about how he had been treated, and he used Frankenstein’s family to black mail him. “but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends.” (pg 68). This shows that he is willing to kill people to get what he wants. So he could’ve easily killed William before.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The monster did kill William because the way he speaks to Victor when they meet and talk about the murder. It states " I will leave them and you at peace; but if you refuse, I will glut the maw of death, until it be satiated with the blood of your remaining friends"(Shelly 68). This shows how he murdered William because he is saying if Victor doesn’t meet his request he will kill all of his friends and family just like he did with William. Then how he is being treated relates to his temper and why he killed William and could kill even more people.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
When you create something that is able to kill people and people die from that creation the blood is on your hands. This pointed is helped in the text when it says that, “I resolved to remain silent”(51 Shelly). This proves Victor cause her death because he made the monster and did not take responsibility.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor is the person to blame for the monster’s emotional state because he was the person who created the monster very different from others almost knowing he would stand out and people would not approve of him. It comes up “I saw the dull yellow eye of the creature open;it breathed hard, and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs”(Shelly 35). This shows how it was victors fault because he was even scared of this monster that he created so he had to of known how others would feel and the way others feel about the monster is what put it in the emotional state that it is in.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
The point you make is valid, but what about the Monster. Can’t he control his emotions? Would you say that people who were abandoned at birth are not guilty of any future wrongdoing because they weren’t loved by their parents?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Many of our actions and thoughts are based off of what we have experienced in our lifetime, whether it is how we were treated as an infant, or if it was something more recent. Sure, we do have ultimate control over our actions, and how we react, but he might not have full control of those feelings.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
New Conversation
Victor is responsible for the tragic death because he shows the monster his true feelings – hatred. Victor shows fear and runs away from the monster. Page 35 says “…I beheld the wretch – the miserable monster whom I created. He held up the curtain of the bed; and his eyes, if eyes they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaw opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might’ve spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed downstairs. I took refuge in the courtyard belonging to the house which I inhabited; where I remained during the rest of the night, walking up and down in the greatest agitation, listening attentively, catching and fearing each sound as if it were to announce the approach of the demoniacal corpse to which I had so miserably given life”(35). This situation may have startled the monster since it knows very little of human interaction and feeling. At this moment, the monster can see Victor’s true feelings toward him, which would cause the monster great anger or agitating agony.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree with you on that Victor caused the monster’s emotional state, but do you think there was more than one thing that Victor did that caused the monster to feel the way he did? Do you think there was more to it than him just running away as soon as he met him?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
However, shouldn’t the monster have been able to get over this original rejection? If not, what keeps him from being able to move on from it?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think this because Victor abandoned the monster, when the monster needed him the most. The monster comes, “one hand stretched out, seeming to detain me, but I escaped”(pg.35). However, if Frankenstein had given the monster love and care since he created it, the monster would be happier and less aggressive. You learn from what you’re parents teach you and the monster did not have this
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Shouldn’t the monster have been able to learn from somebody else? Even though Victor wasn’t around to teach him, aren’t there millions of other people in the world who could have acted as parents/teachers to the monster?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Judging by the description Victor gave of the monster, it seems like he was a pretty scary guy. So even if the monster had met other people, they might have reacted in the same way Victor did which would leave the monster even more afraid and would make him more aggressive.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
I agree, but I don’t think that anyone ever saw the monster otherwise the whole town would have known by now that there’s a huge and yellow man wandering around their village. The monster seems to understand that he would alarm people just like he did to Frank, so he never let another human lay eyes on him in fear of maybe scaring them too.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
As is mentioned in page 35… “I started from my sleep every limb became convulsed: when, by the dim and yellow light of the moon, as it forced its way through the window shudders, I beheld the wretch – the miserable monster whom I had created.” It then goes on to describe how aweful, and horrid the monster is. No one is willing to teach someone who is a wretch, and even Victor, the monster’s creator, fled in fear. That’s a good sign that no one will like the monster, or will do any favors for it.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
These actions would help the monster be in a better emotional state, but that might have been hard for Frankenstein to see. When he woke up to the monster leaning over him and reaching out, he didn’t know if the monster was trying to kill him or just trying to figure things out. This led him to try and save his life by running out. Do you think there is another way Frankenstein could have handled the situation of he wasn’t sure what the monster would do?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I do feel Victor is responsible, i do think the monster wouldn’t necessary be all careing.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor neglecting the monster defiantly affects the monsters emotional state in a negative way.
“His jaws opened , and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear ;one hand stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed down stairs.”
In this quote, right after Victor creates the monster, he runs from it leaving the monster with a feeling that no one wants to be by him. This would affect his emotional state in a negative way but on the other hand it is a monster it is not a human and Victor cannot be entirely blamedNew Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
What else is responsible for the monster’s feelings/emotional state then? If it’s not all Victor, what else makes the monster feel the way it does?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
There are other factors other than Victor. Like for example the monster picks up ques on society not just Victor. The monster is also a monster and not a human so that must be taken into account.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I believe Victor is to blame because this monster is his creation. He put his time and effort into creating this, so it only makes sense to put the blame on Victor for it’s emotional state. Since this monster is a new creature in the world the only reference to human like characteristics would be Victor’s. So, even though he eventually explored and adapted to the world, his first role model was Victor, which would explain why he is to blame for his emotional state.Usually when someone is new to a place they rely on the person that guided them and in that case it was Victor. Victor states himself that “a new species would bless me as it’s creator and source…” He continues to say that “many of it’s happy and excellent natures would owe their being to me (Shelly 32).” According to Victor he was confident in his creation and wanted to take credit for it, which would mean he is to blame for the monsters current emotional state.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
If he is willing to take credit for the good stuff, he has to be willing to take blame for the bad stuff.
BUT! doesn’t the monster have to take some ownership of his emotions? Shouldn’t he be able to regulate his emotions and realize that Victor is just a dead-beat father and his self worth doesn’t need to be defined by such a loser of a human being?
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor does not like his own creation, at one point saying “Begone! Relieve me from the sight of your deseted form,” (Shelley 70). The monster was not even wanted by the person that had made him, and the rejection must’ve lead to his current actions and emotional state.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
He is to blame for the monster’s mental state because when he first created the monster he ran away. This is stated in the text when it says, “but I escaped, and rushed downstairs. (35 Shelly)” This shows that Victor had immense fear when he first saw the monster which caused the monster to start his life with the tragedy of being left alone.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
To start, Victor created the monster in the first place. But it isn’t like the creature was evil from the start. He seemed almost like a child when first created. In one of Victor’s first encounters with him, “His jaw opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks”(Shelley 35). In this case, he seemed to act like a child. As a new life form, he is very impressionable, and Victor abandoning him at a crucial time could have led to his later choices.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think victor is to blame for the monster’s current emotional state. The first time they met, the monster was just as afraid as victor was. This was the monsters first interaction with anyone or anything ever, so he didn’t know how to act. “He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped,”(pg. 35). Victor lashed out in fear. In the book it says “escaped” like the monster was trying to capture him. And like I said before, since this was the monster’s first interaction with human life, he was probably very angry and scared. This may have been what lead him to kill William.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
I think Victor never showed enough sympathy for the monster. He made this monster that was such an outsider that he felt like an alien. This is why the monsters emotions are bad. For example, “He held up the curtain of the bed; and his eyes, if eyes they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken,but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped, and rushed downstairs.” (Shelley 35). “Oh! no mortal could support the horror of that countenance. A mummy again endued with animation could not be so hideous as that wretch.” (Shelley 36)
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
The person to blame for the monsters emotions is Victor. He devoted years of his life to create this being just to not even look at him and let him leave. Without ever speaking to the monster who he created or giving with a chance, Victor thought of him as a “demonical corpse” and a “wretch whom I feared every turning of the street would present my view”(36). The monster had no one to teach him and love him, so he never learned how to love and be kind. Instead, he is now taking his anger out on Victor and the people he loves.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor created this being and when a being is brought into the world it is the responsibility of its creators to prepare it for the world. Victor worked on his creation for so long his heart become a kin to the Warlock of Beedle the bard causing this in a way child to strike out alone and forge itself into whatever it can become. When Victor recounters the monster he blames it for his misdeeds but can not recognize that it’s destruction could have been prevented by care a teachings of another. If Victor had found the kindness within him to take pity on the wretch he created then it could have learned and become a multitude of wonderful things.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
Victor is to blame because he created the monster, and when they meet up he Victor is lecturing him,on page 68. This goes on for the whole page, and it is Victors fault because he is being very harsh to the monster which can make the monster feel bad about himself.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment Hide Thread Detail
Did the monster have the right to murder Victor’s brother and threaten to do the same to everyone he loves because of this though? I understand that Victor was harsh to the monster and I think that the monster has a right to be mad, but killing his family, in my opinion, is not okay.
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment
General Document Comments 0
When the monster began talking to Victor, he was speaking very clearly and sounded very intelligent. I was very surprised by this because he was all alone for years and he couldn’t talk to anyone or be seen because of how “ugly” he was and his great height. Also, he never talked to Victor when he was first created, so we didn’t even know if he could actually talk. Not only was he coherently speaking, he was talking as if he had been his whole life. He said, “Yet you, my creator, detest and spurn me, thy creature, to whom thou art bound by ties only dissoluble by the annihilation of one of us”(68).
New Conversation
Hide Full Comment