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Excerpts from "Some Character-types Met With in Psychoanalytic Work," by Sigmund Freud (1916)

Author: Sigmund Freud

Freud, S. (1916). [SEN309a2]Editor's Note to "Some Character-Types Met with in Psycho-Analytic Work". The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud, Volume XIV (1914-1916): On the History of the PsychoAnalytic Movement, Papers on Metapsychology and Other Works, 309-333


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… Analytic work has no difficulty in showing us that it is forces of conscience which forbid the subject to gain the long-hoped-for advantage from the fortunate change in reality. It is a difficult task, however, to discover the essence and origin of these judging and punishing trends, which so often surprise us by their existence where we do not expect to find them…

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Dec 11
Breudy Breudy (Dec 11 2019 10:23AM) : What are the "forces of conscience"? What does he mean by "the long-hoped-for advantage from the fortunate change in reality." more

What this means is that your mind doesn’t want you to get an advantage in life.

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Dec 11
Sadiel Sadiel (Dec 11 2019 10:36AM) : I think this means that "forces of conscience," or the way the brain works, can prevent you from being lucky in life. more

In a way, I agree with this because may the brain doesn’t let you realize the opportunity you can reach.

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Dec 11
eliza o eliza o (Dec 11 2019 1:54PM) : I think Freud is talking about how the powers of the mind or your thoughts, your super ego, the thing that tells you no... can prohibit people from getting a change they desire in the real world. more

I agree because everything you do is all mental, like everything is in your head. When you want to do something, whether for you, someone else or the world as a whole, you can doubt yourself and the decision you want to make. For example, its your moms birthday and you want to make her a cake but instead you go out with your friends, because you know they will be mad if you dont, and forget about the cake. You knew making the cake was the right thing but you would rather spend time with your friends and not get in a fight with them. Your conscience can make you doubt everything.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:11AM) : Freud claims to study this in order to gain a greater understanding of human behavior more

the study of human psychology seems pretty difficult however, sine there is a lack of scientific resources on the subject to refer to.

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MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:19AM) : I agree more

And when Freud was studying this there probably weren’t many other people who studied this or believed his work. And that probably made him want to study psychoanalysis even more so he could understand it and show others how our minds work.

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Dec 11
Breudy Breudy (Dec 11 2019 10:35AM) : what does this mean more

what his means is that to determine the character of the human brain its is difficult

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:38AM) : yes
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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:38AM) : What origin? more

Maybe it could be like where came from.

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Dec 11
Sadiel Sadiel (Dec 11 2019 10:52AM) : It's not easy to find out where all the memories of the things in our lives prevent us from enjoying ourselves. [Edited] more

i agree with this because if someone has went threw something that really hurt them in the pass the memory of that thing could still affect that person’s happiness.

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eliza o eliza o (Dec 11 2019 2:00PM) : What I think Freud is trying to say here is that when you have those doubts, like I was saying before, it is very hard to first acknowledge them but then to accept them and find the root of them is even harder and usually surprising. more

I agree with what Freud is saying. I think that when you have doubts about something, like the cake vs friends example I gave before, you had doubts about making your moms birthday cake because you want to hang out with your friends so they dont get mad at you. It seems like a pretty easy issue but this conflict could lead to the realization of many other issues such as anxiety and paranoia. It takes a strong person to see an issue such as this, but to figure out where its rooted from is even harder and often shocking.

We may take as an example of a person who collapses on reaching success, after striving for it with single-minded energy, the figure of Shakespeare's Lady Macbeth. Beforehand there is no hesitation, no sign of any internal conflict in her, no endeavor but that of overcoming the scruples of her ambitious and yet tender-minded husband. She is ready to sacrifice even her womanliness to her murderous intention, without reflecting on the decisive part which this womanliness must play when the question afterwards arises of preserving the aim of her ambition, which has been attained through a crime.

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Milo W Milo W (Dec 09 2019 10:00AM) : "a person who collapses on reaching success" more

This is because someone may be so ambitious that they end up doing something they end up regretting, making their success not worth it. Or this might happen because someone would put so much effort into accomplishing this one thing, that when it happens, they either lose motivation to do anything else, or don’t know what to do with themself.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:13AM) : describes lady Macbeth as destructive after success more

Freud seems to think that fictional characters can be analyzed by his methods.

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Kiran C Kiran C (Dec 09 2019 12:20PM) : This is a key idea of Freud's.
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katarina p (Dec 11 2019 10:44AM) : Freud believes that they are like the same entity- although separated in nature more

Freud says that they have a separated yet intertwined relationship

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Breudy Breudy (Dec 11 2019 11:08AM) : Freud is saying that Lady Macbeth is an example of a person who falls even after succeeding. more

Another example of this is when students succeed in a project or a test, but then they stop caring. I wonder why would Freud think this?

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Dec 9
MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 09 2019 9:59AM) : In disagree with this. more

While Lady Macbeth may not have been showing that she has an internal conflict that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have one. I feel like everyone has everyone has an internal conflict. Even someone in a perfect relationship, with a perfect job, and loving friends and family, even those people who we view as having the perfect life are going through something. And maybe they themselves don’t realize it yet which is why they don’t show any signs but everyone has an internal conflict.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:16AM) : Lady Macbeth described as ambitious in the beginning, but breaks down over time more

Freud explains how much Lady Macbeth has also effected Macbeth’s own mental state- being the one who convinced him to murder the king. Lady Macbeth also is described as having little remorse for her actions until she begins to feel guilt.

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:45AM) : Here it says how lady Macbeth in the beginning she had no internal conflict. more

This is true in the beginning she was secure of her actions but after her actions were done she had internal conflict.

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eliza o eliza o (Dec 11 2019 2:09PM) : Lady Macbeth begins very strong and ambitious but as the play goes on, she becomes weaker and you begin to see a more complex side of her character. more

I agree with this. I think that Lady Macbeth always had a very complex side, even when you couldn’t see it. Freud says that “Beforehand there is no hesitation, no sign of any internal conflict in her (Lady Macbeth.” There were no clear signs but I do believe we could infer that she has some issues because of the way she acts. For example, normally people don’t have such violent intentions and that I think is a sign of internal conflict in itself.

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Milo W Milo W (Dec 09 2019 10:09AM) : Lady Macbeth more

Even after Lady Macbeth got what she wanted, she was so guilty from killing someone out of her own selfishness, that she didn’t even enjoy being royalty (what she wanted all along) and ended up killing herself.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:18AM) : Lady Macbeth described as ambitious more

Freud says that she seems to be very determined and decisive in order to reach her goals (murder).

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:52AM) : Do to her womanliness, it is what drove her ambition. more

She was ready to sacrifice her womanliness and this was what drove her to sacrifice it.

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CHRISTIAN U CHRISTIAN U (Dec 11 2019 2:15PM) : Essentially, Lady Macbeth acted as though she was masculine, setting kindness aside in order to help Macbeth kill the king and Duncan. more

But once she ‘reverted back’ to being feminine, she couldn’t handle the realization of what she’d done, since she was sensitive and caring.

Come, you spirits
That tend on mortal thought, unsex me here
... Come to my woman's breasts,
And take my milk for gall, you murdering ministers!

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MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 09 2019 10:02AM) : This part shows that LM has conflicts. more

LM is asking spirits to unsex her. This is clearly showing that she is going through something. A woman with no problems wouldn’t ask spirits to take her milk for gall.

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(I v 41)

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... I have given suck, and know
How tender 'tis to love the babe below that milks me:
I would, while it was smiling in my face,
Have pluck'd my nipple from his boneless gums
And dashed the brains out, had I so sworn as you
Have done to this.

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Dec 11
Sadiel Sadiel (Dec 11 2019 10:56AM) : what does Shakespeare mean by suck ? [Edited] more

i belive she means breast feeding

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Dec 11
Sadiel Sadiel (Dec 11 2019 10:59AM) : can someone please enlighten me i'm confused!!!
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Milo W Milo W (Dec 09 2019 10:12AM) : This shows how far people will go to be successful. Lady Macbeth was willing to kill her own baby to be royalty and have power.
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(I vii 54)

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One solitary faint stirring of reluctance comes over her before the deed:

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... Had he not resembled
My father as he slept, I had done it...

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:20AM) : Lady Macbeth shows some empathy more

she notes that she wouldn’t kill her father- and therefore refuses to kill anyone who looks like him by herself; showing that Lady Macbeth feels remorse at least a little bit. A product of this action, however, is the amount of manipulation that insues on Macbeth to convince him to kill.

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RUTH S RUTH S (Dec 16 2019 12:40PM) : Honestly Lady Macbeth not being able to kill someone who looks like her father is pretty selfish. Knowing that Duncan was kinda of like a father figure to Macbeth.
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(II ii 14)

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Then, when she has become Queen through the murder of Duncan, she betrays for a moment something like disappointment, something like disillusionment. We cannot tell why.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:24AM) : Freud notes that he does not know the reasons for her actions more

he also notes the emotions that he thinks Lady Macbeth was experiencing during that time- in order to fully understand her point of view

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Maximiliana Maximiliana (Dec 09 2019 12:11PM) : Frued's idea about disillusionment can also connect to the idea of want, and the yearning for power. Freud says that Lady Macbeth is disappointed. more

This could be because there will never be a point where she has enough power, her need for control is not attainable even though she is the queen of Scotland- and controls the king of Scotland (Macbeth).

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Dec 11
Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:56AM) : After the murder of Duncan she changes. more

She feels like it wasn’t right and is some what disappointed.

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... Nought's had, all's spent,
Where our desire is got without content:
'Tis safer to be that which we destroy,
Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

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(III ii 4)

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Nevertheless, she holds out. In the banqueting scene, which follows on these words, she alone keeps her head, cloaks her husband's state of confusion and finds a pretext for dismissing the guests. And then she disappears from view. We next see her in the sleepwalking scene in the last Act, fixated to the impressions of the night of the murder. Once again, as then, she seeks to put heart into her husband:

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Dec 11
DONALD M DONALD M (Dec 11 2019 1:47PM) : psychotic break more

she holds herself together in the moment. but her true thoughts and feelings come up later through her unconscious/her sleep. it says a lot about her character that she has so much bottled up, that the only way for her to actually let it out is through her unconscious.

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:25AM) : Lady Macbeth begins dismissing the guests more

perhaps this alludes to the act of avoidance that freud speaks about during his psychoanalytic theories.

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katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:19AM) : Lady Macbeth is the one who seems perfectly calm more

despite being through many psychological stressors, Lady Macbeth remains calm through the banquet where her husband is having a breakdown.

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eliza o eliza o (Dec 11 2019 2:15PM) : I think Freud is twisting this idea a little. more

Lady Macbeth in the sleepwalking scene was not her seeking “to put heart in her husband.” In the scene you see Lady Macbeth, asleep, so terrified and out of her mind. I don’t think interpreting Lady Macbeth’s character in that scene as putting heart into her husband is way off. She is speaking out loud her internal conflict she has been feeling this whole time which is when we get to realize that she is not mentally stable after the murder.

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MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:24AM) : This is interesting because I think it is Lady Macbeth that took the heart out of Macbeth in the first place. more

Freud is saying that LM is trying to put a heart into Macbeth.But if LM hadn’t convinced Macbeth to kill Duncan earlier in the play Macbeth probably wouldn’t have lost his heart and LM wouldn’t be in the situation she is in.

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eliza o eliza o (Dec 11 2019 2:19PM) : I agree, I think this view of it is very interesting. more

Freud claimed that Lady Macbeth was putting heart into her husband but I think its actually the opposite. She is draining Macbeth so much and manipulating him so he will do what she says and go along with her plan. She is telling him over and over again that if he doesn’t kill the King he is a coward and barely a man. At one point even she says she wishes she could be a man to do it herself. She is taking that heart out of him, not the other way around.

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 10:59AM) : I'm not sure what this means? more

can somebody explain.

Fie, my lord, fie! A soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our power to account?

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(V I 40)

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She hears the knocking at the door, which terrified her husband after the deed. But at the same time she strives to "undo the deed which cannot be undone". She washes her hands, which are bloodstained and smell of blood, and is conscious of the futility of the attempt. She who had seemed so remorseless seems to have been borne down by remorse. When she dies, Macbeth, who meanwhile has become as inexorable as she had been in the beginning, can only find a brief epitaph for her:

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katarina p (Dec 09 2019 10:28AM) : she does not seem to express sadness or regret after the first murder more

this also further proves the newfound mental instability of Lady Macbeth.

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katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:20AM) : Lady Macbeth feels remorse for the killings more

is this perhaps because of a build up of stressful events that she had to go through? why didn’t she reach her breaking point sooner and stop some of the deaths from occurring?

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MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:33AM) : It is like LM and Macbeth switched places. more

In the beginning of the play LM was ruthless and unstoppable because she was so desperate to kill the king. Even though LM was like that at the start, Macbeth had sympathy for Duncan and was not as eager to kill Duncan. However at the end of the play LM was not as ruthless, she had regret. But when LM became changed Macbeth also changed. At the end of the play as Freud said Macbeth “has become as inexorable as she had been in the beginning” This shows that in the beginning LM was ruthless but Macbeth was not but then at the end it is like they switched places because Macbeth was ruthless while LM had regret for the things she did and was not ruthless.

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 11:06AM) : Macbeth doesn't really feel so effected by the death of Lady Macbeth. more

Do to Macbeth gaining power that Macbeth gained after killing Duncan he became like Lady Macbeth (inexorable) and Lady Macbeth wasn’t the same and then took her life.

She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.

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(V v 17)

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And now we ask ourselves what it was that broke this character which had seemed forged from the toughest metal? Is it only disillusionment -- the different aspect shown by the accomplished deed1 -- and are we to infer that even in Lady Macbeth an originally gentle and womanly nature had been worked up to a concentration and high tension which could not endure for long, or ought we to seek for signs of a deeper motivation which will make this collapse more humanly intelligible to us?

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Dec 11
MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:36AM) : Is Freud trying to discover what really caused Macbeth to be more ruthless, and change so much as a character? more

While reading the play I thought it was Macbeth becoming king that made him so ruthless. But maybe Macbeth has something going on in his unconscious that caused him to act like this and the murder and becoming king were triggers for him.

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Dec 9
Milo W Milo W (Dec 09 2019 10:17AM) : People tend to act out or become very mentally disturbed after a traumatic event. In Lady Macbeth's case, the reason for her acting like this could of been the death of her child.
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katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:22AM) : Freud tries to find the humanity of the murderous Macbeths more

he sates that they have been pushed to do the things they did by a buildup of tension and stress from their lives.

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Jhon Jhon (Dec 11 2019 11:08AM) : Lady Macbeth couldn't handle it anymore. more

Lady Macbeth before was tough and was in high tension, but after her actions she couldn’t handle any more .

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Dec 11
DONALD M DONALD M (Dec 11 2019 1:54PM) : human nature more

its not just lady Macbeth that this would happen to in these conditions, its a comment on how anybody, when pushed enough, would break. maybe not exactly like lady Macbeth, who was already predisposed to a mental illness, i gather that from the fact that she so easily committed to murder. but at least have some kind of breakdown.

It seems to me impossible to come to any decision. Shakespeare's Macbeth is a piéce d'occasion, written for the accession of James, who had hitherto been King of Scotland. The plot was ready-made, and had been handled by other contemporary writers, whose work Shakespeare probably made use of in his customary manner. It offered remarkable analogies to the actual situation. The "virginal" Elizabeth, of whom it was rumored that she had never been capable of child-bearing and who had once described herself as "a barren stock"2 in an anguished outcry at the news of James's birth, was obliged by this very childlessness of hers to make the Scottish king her successor. And he was the son of the Mary Stuart whose execution she, even though reluctantly, had ordered, and who, in spite of the clouding of their relations by political concerns, was nevertheless of her blood and might be called her guest.

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Dec 9
Maximiliana Maximiliana (Dec 09 2019 12:51PM) : Freud uses the connection between Macbeth (as king) and other monarchs who had no children- or couldn't. This could be solid. However, the Macbeth's despair seems to be evident long before his rise to power.
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The accession of James I was like a demonstration of the curse of unfruitfulness and the blessings of continuous generation. And the action of Shakespeare's Macbeth is based on this same contrast.3

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Dec 9
Maximiliana Maximiliana (Dec 09 2019 12:20PM) : This also connects to the overall idea that the mark you leave on the world is far more important than you yourself. In this way, the children you raise and leave after you die would be your mark or legacy. more

This is especially important as the legacy a monarch leaves can shape the country they rue over in the future. Alternatively, a Monarch who doesn’t have children to give his throne to can be seen as the last of their legacy or the end of their bloodline or dynasty.

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The Weird Sisters assured Macbeth that he himself should be king, but to Banquo they promised that his children should succeed to the crown. Macbeth is incensed by this decree of destiny. He is not content with the satisfaction of his own ambition. He wants to found a dynasty -- not to have murdered for the benefit of strangers. This point is overlooked if Shakespeare's play is regarded only as a tragedy of ambition. It is clear that Macbeth cannot live forever, and thus there is but one way for him to invalidate the part of the prophecy which opposes him -- namely, to have children himself who can succeed him. And he seems to expect them from his indomitable wife:

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katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:24AM) : Macbeth is highlighted as unsatisfied with the products of his ambition more

it seems like Macbeth is unable to find closure and live contently- even after getting everything he wanted (becoming king). This is most likely the cause of very high expectations that the king projected upon the life of a king and powerful leader.

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Dec 9
Milo W Milo W (Dec 09 2019 10:28AM) : I wonder if this is so important to him because his child died. He was unfortunate, so he took his anger out on Banquo.
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Dec 11
MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:45AM) : I wonder why Macbeth is so desperate for his children to take his place? more

Maybe it is simply just because he wants his bloodline in the royal family to last a long time so that he can be remembered, but I think there is more to it. Maybe Macbeth has a fear of death and after killing Duncan and the death of his child he realized how death is inevitable. And maybe because of that he feels like if he has children his name will live forever so it is like he will live forever. Or possibly maybe he is in denial of his first child’s death so now he wants another child so he can avoid the truth of what happened to his first child. There could be a lot going on but I definitely think it is more than just his family being royal forever.

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Bring forth men-children only!
For thy undaunted mettle should compose
Nothing but males...

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(I vii 72)

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And equally it is clear that if he is deceived in this expectation he must submit to destiny; otherwise his actions lose all purpose and are transformed into the blind fury of one doomed to destruction, who is resolved to destroy beforehand all that he can reach. We watch Macbeth pass through this development, and at the height of the tragedy we hear Macduff's shattering cry, which has so often been recognized to be ambiguous and which may perhaps contain the key to the change in Macbeth:

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yeehaw

Dec 10
katarina p

yeehaw

katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:27AM) : Macbeth became controlled by the thought of his impending fate more

the fear or being replaced by Banquo’s child was so powerful it drove Macbeth insane- making schemes and failed assassination attempts to secure the throne for himself.

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yeehaw

Dec 10
katarina p

yeehaw

katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:28AM) : Freud believes that Macbeth experienced a change in character during the play more

perhaps he saw the increased stress that Macbeth endured while planning new murders.

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Dec 11
MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:47AM) : I agree with Freud more

I think during the play Macbeth experienced a change in character.

He has no children!

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(IV iii 216)

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There is no doubt that this means: "Only because he is himself childless could he murder my children." But more may be implied in it, and above all it may lay bare the deepest motive which not only forces Macbeth to go far beyond his own nature, but also touches the hard character of his wife at its only weak point. If one surveys the whole play from the summit marked by these words of Macduff's, one sees that it is sown with references to the father-children relation. The murder of the kindly Duncan is little else than parricide; in Banquo's case, Macbeth kills the father while the son escapes him; and in Macduff's, he kills the children because the father has fled from him. A bloody child, and then a crowned one, are shown him by the witches in the apparition scene; the armed head which is seen earlier is no doubt Macbeth himself. But in the background rises the sinister form of the avenger, Macduff, who is himself an exception to the laws of generation, since he was not born of his mother but ripp'd from her womb.

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It would be a perfect example of poetic justice in the manner of [making the punishment fit the crime] if the childlessness of Macbeth and the barrenness of his Lady were the punishment for their crimes against the sanctity of generation -- if Macbeth could not become a father because he had robbed children of their father and a father of his children, and if Lady Macbeth suffered the unsexing she had demanded of the spirits of murder. I believe Lady Macbeth's illness, the transformation of her callousness into penitence, could be explained directly as a reaction to her childlessness, by which she is convinced of her impotence against the decrees of nature, and at the same time reminded that it is through her own fault if her crime has been robbed of the better part of its fruits.

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In Holinshed's Chronicle (1577), from which Shakespeare took the plot of Macbeth, Lady Macbeth is only once mentioned as the ambitious wife who instigates her husband to murder in order that she may herself become queen. There is no mention of her subsequent fate and of the development of her character. On the other hand, it would seem that the change of Macbeth's character into a bloodthirsty tyrant is ascribed to the same motives as we have suggested here. For in Holinshed ten years pass between the murder of Duncan, through which Macbeth becomes king, and his further misdeeds; and in these ten years he is shown as a stern but just ruler. It is not until after this lapse of time that the change begins in him, under the influence of the tormenting fear that the prophecy to Banquo may be fulfilled just as the prophecy of his own destiny has been. Only then does he contrive the murder of Banquo, and, as in Shakespeare, is driven from one crime to another. It is not expressly stated in Holinshed that it was his childlessness which urged him to these courses, but enough time and room is given for that plausible motive. Not so in Shakespeare. Events crowd upon us in the tragedy with breathless haste so that, to judge by the statements made by the characters in it, the course of its action covers about one week. This acceleration takes the ground from under all our constructions of the motives for the change in the characters of Macbeth and his wife. There is no time for a long-drawn-out disappointment of their hopes of offspring to break the woman down and drive the man to defiant rage; and the contradiction remains that though so many subtle interrelations in the plot, and between it and its occasion, point to a common origin of them in the theme of childlessness, nevertheless the economy of time in the tragedy expressly precludes a development of character from any motives but those inherent in the action itself.

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What, however, these motives can have been which in so short a space of time could turn the hesitating, ambitious man into an unbridled tyrant, and his steely-hearted instigator into a sick woman gnawed by remorse, it is, in my view, impossible to guess. We must, I think, give up any hope of penetrating the triple layer of obscurity into which the bad preservation of the text, the unknown intention of the dramatist, and the hidden purport of the legend have become condensed. But I should not subscribe to the objection that investigations like these are idle in face of the powerful effect which the tragedy has upon the spectator. The dramatist can indeed, during the representation, overwhelm us by his art and paralyze our powers of reflection; but he cannot prevent us from attempting subsequently to grasp its effect by studying its psychological mechanism. Nor does the contention that a dramatist is at liberty to shorten at will the natural chronology of the events he brings before us, if by the sacrifice of common probability he can enhance the dramatic effect, seem to me relevant in this instance. For such a sacrifice is justified only when it merely interferes with probability4 not when it breaks the causal connection; moreover, the dramatic effect would hardly have suffered if the passage of time had been left indeterminate, instead of being expressly limited to a few days.

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yeehaw

Dec 10
katarina p

yeehaw

katarina p (Dec 10 2019 2:31AM) : Macbeth and Lady Macbeth share the same fatal flaw more

both of them are driven by ambition; but when they are able to get everything they dreamed of, they don’t feel content- and instead commit to remorse- and/or get swallowed in their fears and lose touch with reality.

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MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 10:50AM) : I agree with you, LM and Macbeth both go through this. more

With LM she had so much ambition and eventually she did get what she wanted. Macbeth killed Duncan for her, and she then became queen. But after she got all of this she felt so much regret for what she did and as you said got swallowed by her fears. And eventually she lost touch with reality and killed herself.

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One is so unwilling to dismiss a problem like that of Macbeth as insoluble that I will venture to bring up a fresh point, which may offer another way out of the difficulty. Ludwig Jekels, in a recent Shakespearean study, thinks he has discovered a particular technique of the poet's, and this might apply to Macbeth.5 He believes that Shakespeare often splits a character up into two personages, which, taken separately, are not completely understandable and do not become so until they are brought together once more into a unity. This might be so with Macbeth and Lady Macbeth. In that case it would of course be pointless to regard her as an independent character and seek to discover the motives for her change, without considering the Macbeth who completes her. I shall not follow this clue any further, but I should, nevertheless, like to point out something which strikingly confirms this view: the germs of fear which break out in Macbeth on the night of the murder do not develop further in him but in her. It is he who has the hallucination of the dagger before the crime; but it is she who afterwards falls ill of a mental disorder. It is he who after the murder hears the cry in the house: "Sleep no more! Macbeth does murder sleep..." and so "Macbeth shall sleep no more"; but we never hear that he slept no more, while the Queen, as we see, rises from her bed and, talking in her sleep, betrays her guilt. It is he who stands helpless with bloody hands, lamenting that "all great Neptune's ocean" will not wash them clean, while she comforts him: "A little water clears us of this deed"; but later it is she who washes her hands for a quarter of an hour and cannot get rid of the bloodstains: "All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand." Thus what he feared in his pangs of conscience is fulfilled in her; she becomes all remorse and he all defiance. Together they exhaust the possibilities of reaction to the crime, like two disunited parts of a single psychical individuality, and it may be that they are both copied from the same prototype.

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Kiran C Kiran C (Dec 11 2019 2:12PM) : We give Shakespeare credit for so many ideas and concepts, when, like most scholars, he was simply building on the scholarship of others. That's what scholars do. Shakespeare cites Jekels here , and gives credit where credit is due, with footnote #5. [Edited] more

Donald points out that Freud recognized a good idea when he saw one. Jekels had written that Shakespeare splits a character in two, and Freud notes that Jekels’ theory works for the Macbeths.

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Maximiliana Maximiliana (Dec 09 2019 12:44PM) : Almost as to show how despite the fact that Macbeth did the deeds that were unforgivable, Lady Macbeth feels as if it is all her fault because she was the puppeteer behind Macbeth- so the blood on his hands is thus on hers.
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… we have been unable to give any answer to the question why Lady Macbeth should collapse after her success

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End Notes

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1

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An allusion to a line in Schiller's Die Braut von Messina, III v. Strachey and Tyson (eds.) .

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Cf. Macbeth, Act III, sc. I:

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Upon my head they placed a fruitless crown,
And put a barren sceptre in my gripe,
Thence to be wrenched with an unlineal hand,
No son of mine succeeding ...

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As is Richard III's wooing of Anne beside the bier of the King whom he has murdered.

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Freud had already suggested this in the first edition of The Interpretation of Dreams (1900), Standard Edition, IV 266. Strachey and Tyson (eds.) .

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5

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This does not appear to have been published. In a later paper on Macbeth Jekels (1917) barely refers to this theory, apart from quoting the present paragraph. In a still later paper, on The Psychology of Comedy, Jekels (1926) returns to the subject, but again very briefly. Strachey and Tyson (eds.) .

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1

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[KC1]M & LM are one person, driven by childlessness.

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Dec 11
MAEVON C MAEVON C (Dec 11 2019 11:02AM) : This is a theme we talked about a lot in class [Edited] more

In class we talked about the theme of children and how they have a major impact on LM and Macbeth because they are both driven by children. They both wish for children yet they are childless which is where a lot of their motivation comes from. Macbeth wants children so that his blood is his successor and possibly for more reasons. And one thing we talked about is is that LM may want to be Queen so bad so she can avoid the fact that she doesn’t have a child. Children motivate both of them and I think it is clear that children have a major role in the lives of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth.

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DONALD M DONALD M (Dec 11 2019 2:00PM) : regression more

both Macbeth and Lady Macbeth regressed into one childlike person

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DMU Timestamp: November 27, 2019 01:26

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