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Review of Promised Lands


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Review of Promised Lands
Dennis Lim

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If there is one aspect of Susan Sontag's multifaceted life that has resisted enshrinement, it is her film career. Sontag was not primarily a film critic — having avowed more than once that she valued her fiction over her essays, she might even have contested the notion that she was primarily a critic.

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But she was a central figure in film culture. The essays she published on movies — her first collection, "Against Interpretation," included pieces on science fiction and Jean-Luc Godard — paved the way for intellectuals to take the art form seriously. Her final piece of film criticism, "A Century of Cinema," was a lament for what she considered a declining art, but Sontag remained a devoted film buff, a fixture at New York City's repertory theaters, until her death in 2004.

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In between the novels and plays and essays on art and literature and politics, Sontag made a few movies herself, all of which have become exceedingly difficult to see. Her first two efforts, "Duet for Cannibals" (1969) and "Brother Carl" (1971), are fiction films, both made in Sweden and somewhat under the sign of Bergman. Her final film, "Unguided Tour" (1983), is a Venice travelogue, adapted from her own short story.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:49PM) : What do the first three paragraphs establish in considering the film under review?
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Jing Zhang Jing Zhang (Apr 22 2015 12:34PM) : The first three paragraphs demonstrate how multifaceted Susan Sontag's life is. The background information explains Sontag's personal perspective towards the making of Promised Lands. more

The film fits the documentary genre, but Sontag “considered it her most personal film” because it is derived from her previous works on literature and politics.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:36AM) : Yes, you might say the film reflects Sontag's literary sensibility.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 22 2015 7:50PM) : Lim presented this information about Sontag because she set herself a daunting task when it came to stepping behind the camera and becoming a central figure in film culture. more

Even though she did not believe she was primarily a critic, Promised Lands is more clearly and fully a work of cinema.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:38AM) : I'm not sure what the second half of your sentence has to do with the first half.
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Annie Paul Annie Paul (Apr 23 2015 9:45AM) : These paragraphs potentially say a lot when it comes to the film's portrayal more

Before Lim goes into reviewing the film, he goes into a brief review of Sontag’s life and career so that the audience may get a clear idea of perhaps why she does what she does in her films. Lim also wants to establish that maybe he was confused about some things in the film, and this brief synopsis about her life cleared up some questions he had, so he wanted those questions to be answered for us before we get a chance to ask them.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 7:58AM) : Right
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 3:57PM) : The first three paragraphs establish Sontag as a filmmaker and an active mind in the art/intellectual world during the time of the film. This gives her a certain edge, proving her to be a reputable source.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 7:58AM) : Yes, paragraphs about her reputation.
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Michelle Macauda Michelle Macauda (Apr 23 2015 10:49PM) : The first three paragraphs establish that Susan Sontag's view on her films weren't first identified as a documentary film. more

The first three paragraphs establish that Susan Sontag’s view on her films weren’t first identified as a documentary film. These paragraphs reflect the personal opinion that Sontag thinks about Promised Lands.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 7:59AM) : What is her opinion?
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Evie Horn Evie Horn (Apr 23 2015 11:34PM) : One of the most important things about the first three paragraphs is that they separate the reviewer from the film/filmmaker they are reviewing, much like Sontag does with her film. more

As I discussed in my journal and you also commented on, it’s important to make sure the reader is getting a sense of the film that’s being the reviewed, not the opinions/life of the person reviewing. The first three paragraphs of this review could have been written by anyone. Instead of giving a subjective point of view, Dennis Lim is giving a somewhat factual, and useful overview of the filmmaker. Understanding where the filmmaker comes from helps the reader to understand the filmmaker and film on a very important level.

This ties into ‘Promised Lands’ because Sontag, much like Lim, somewhat removes herself from the film. There is no ‘voice of god’ commentary; actually hardly any voice over at all. Sontag’s film is almost strictly observational. The first three paragraphs discuss how she is not primarily a documentary filmmaker, which helps make sense of the way that she is able to remove herself from her own commentary, the way a true reviewer does.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:00AM) : I wouldn't say the first paragraphs could have been written by anyone, because Sontag is treated very differently depending on the reviewer. Also, imagine a Palestinian reviewing this film.
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Hui Maggie Su Hui Maggie Su (Apr 23 2015 11:41PM) : To show that Sontag has reputation in film culture. more

To give us a background on her film career. Since she’s been a film critic and has wrote novels, essays and plays, she know what she’s doing in Promised Lands. Althrough the contents seems unorganized, she has her point based on her film experience.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:01AM) : Do you mean disorganized? Also, how is she disorganized. I don't follow.
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Kerry Mack Kerry Mack (Apr 24 2015 7:55AM) : The first three paragraphs establish how talented Sontag was at not only telling a story, but being able to analyze and critique other people's stories. Her work was well done in whatever type of work she was doing and she established herself as a voice more

people trusted and a voice people wanted to hear.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:02AM) : The paragraphs do create this impression, although in fact Sontag is often challenged by critics who dissent from her views.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:18AM) : The first three paragraphs of the review establish Sontag's credibility by showing the many roles she had in creating and criticizing films. more

Lim is trying to show that Sontag is a veteran of the film industry because she is a film buff, film critic, and film maker. He is trying to explain the circumstances under which the films were made and the locations to show Sontag as a well-rounded individual and that her documentaries deserve to be watched.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:14PM) : It is a little misleading to call Sontag a member of the film industry. That term is usually reserved for Hollywood figures. Better to say she is a part of film culture.
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Christina Rivera Christina Rivera (Apr 24 2015 9:46AM) : The first three paragraphs describe Sontag's style and how she would bring out art and science fiction and tie them together. Such as Jing stated, multifaceted. And how she connects this to promised land. [Edited] more

I think it is interesting that Sontag can stick to this film still being a documentary even if it has the touches from her other work.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:15PM) : "can stick to" I'm not sure what you mean.
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Gil Vazquez Gil Vazquez (Apr 24 2015 10:06AM) : career more

The first three paragraphs show the diversity in her film career.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:15PM) : yes.
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:34PM) : These three paragraphs establish Sontag for how she was viewed at the time- a central figure and her notion of an artistic value to movie culture above her other workings.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:16PM) : workings? writings?
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Jocelyn Davila Jocelyn Davila (Apr 24 2015 3:55PM) : Background Information more

Dennis Lim gives the reader some information about Sotang’s previous works in order for us to understand where her views stand and where she is coming from in creating this film. This information makes the audience understand the film better

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:16PM) : Where does she stand? Where does she come from?
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Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:19PM) : Reply more

The first three paragraphs of the review written by Dennis Lim mentions Sontag’s accomplishments in her film career. It then begins to speak about her independence as a film maker. Lim makes it seem like Sontag’s work was good yet unaccessible.

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Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:21PM) : reply more

I also thing Lim depicts her as a hard worker. For example when he says that she was a film buff until death, and that she made movies in between novels, plays, and essays.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:18PM) : film buff does not exactly suggest hard worker.
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The third, "Promised Lands" (1974), also took her abroad, to Israel in fall 1973, in the final days of the Yom Kippur War. New to DVD this week from Zeitgeist/KimStim, it is Sontag's only documentary and her best-regarded movie; she also considered it her most personal film.

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In a piece she wrote for Vogue about the making of "Promised Lands" (included in the liner notes), Sontag resisted the term "documentary," fearing it too restrictive. Instead she proposed several other "literary analogues": "the poem, the essay and the lamentation."

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:50PM) : Why would Sontag resist the term documentary?
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Daniel Kvist Daniel Kvist (Apr 22 2015 11:23AM) : Reply more

Considering the fact that it was a very personal film, she feared that it would be too restrictive to label her movie a documentary. Fearing that people might choose side, when in fact the movie is just showing the everyday life of Palestines and Israelis.
The other two movies she made were fiction, and bear influences of Bergman’s reflections about the impossibility of human communication, which is also the case/theme in “Promised Lands” because the Palestines and Israelis didn’t – and still to this day don’t – know how to communicate.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:39AM) : I wouldn't say Sontag is "just showing everyday life."
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Jing Zhang Jing Zhang (Apr 22 2015 12:42PM) : I think in Sontag's definition of documentary, it should reflect particular situations while being objective and informational. [Edited] more

Being a writer with many publications makes Sontag values personal message as a very important element of films. She wants her idea and creativity to be recognized directly from Promised Lands instead of people regard the film as an mutual reflection of Israel.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:39AM) : Yes, the film is a projection of Sontag's sensibility even if Israel is the ostensible subject of the film.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 22 2015 8:35PM) : Sontag resist the term documentary because she believes it limits the filmmaker’s freedom to create something based on guidelines. more

There are certain expectations placed on documentary filmmakers and their films. But for Sontag events and characters are purposely kept underdeveloped, in order to generate lamentation.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:40AM) : I'm not sure what you mean by "based on guidelines."
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 9:46PM) : Sontag's experiences being a writer has important techniques when translating to developing films. This is different from filmmakers who follow a soft of outline that guides them to develop a film. [Edited]
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:03AM) : sort of outline?
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Annie Paul Annie Paul (Apr 23 2015 9:50AM) : Documentary is a restrictive word more

When people hear words like that, they have a clear idea of what is to be expected. If they get something else otherwise, then instead of embracing the art, they ridicule the lack of understanding of the concept of "documentary’. Sontag wanted to avoid that, so she gave her pieces a broader name “literary analogues” that gave her much more creative room without misleading the audience.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:03AM) : Good point.
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 4:14PM) : Sontag resisted the term documentary because it can comes across as too definitive a term. Sontag didn't want to limit people's perceptions of the film before they saw it by assigning a genre associated with specific traits.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:03AM) : Good point about not limiting herself.
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Anson Chan Anson Chan (Apr 23 2015 4:24PM) : Documentary would give off a certain idea that the audience would expect a typical, fact based movie. While the film can technically be considered a documentary, it does feature a kind of artistic freedom where the director shows a bias toward one side.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:04AM) : Which side? What is the bias?
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Alison Ng Alison Ng (Apr 23 2015 9:54PM) : Reply more

The word ‘documentary’ has a certain connotation to it. For the most part, the general public sees a documentary with this idea of learning/being educated. In addition, most people think that documentaries try to be as objective as possible (even though this is clearly not the case).

Maybe Sontag did not want the connotation of what a documentary is perceived to be to be attached to her film. That way, if the connotation changed in the future, her film wouldn’t be confined to represent a specific style.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:04AM) : Quite possibly.
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Michelle Macauda Michelle Macauda (Apr 23 2015 10:55PM) : Sontage resists the term documentary to describe the type of films she has created because it feels narrow. more

Sontage resists the term documentary to describe the type of films she has created because it feels narrow. I think Sontage felt that by labeling the film documentary would take away from the literary elements to the film.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:05AM) : Sontag, not Sontage.
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Hui Maggie Su Hui Maggie Su (Apr 23 2015 11:56PM) : Documentary is more about objective facts. more

She wants the audience to feel her perspective of Israel while watching this film. Therefore, she think the film is not a documentary because its subjective.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:05AM) : What is Sontag's perspective. By now, though, I wonder you can think documentaries are "objective."
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Kerry Mack Kerry Mack (Apr 24 2015 7:58AM) : I don't think she wanted to use the term documentary because she didn't want to limit the film or put it in a box for people to have preconceived notions. As a critic herself, perhaps she knew people would be critiquing the film from before they ever more

even saw it. So, calling it a documentary outright might have allowed people to make assumptions or arguments about the film before they could truly digest the entire thing.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:06AM) : yes, Sontag wants to avoid labels.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:23AM) : When people hear the word 'documentary' they expect to hear facts and dates and analysis. more

Sontag, on the other hand, wants the viewer to know that she understands there are different interpretations of this situation that it happening. To call a film like this a documentary would mean that Sontag has all the answers on how to proceed with the situation and her truth and interpretation are the only ones that are correct and accurate. By calling it a lamentation, which I feel is the best word she could have used, she allows more room for the viewers own interpretation.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:20PM) : I don't follow your logic. Documentaries do not imply they have all the answers.
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:36PM) : Sontag resisted documentary because to her it was more than just depicting life as it was, Sontag wanted to people to look at the film with a more open minded perspective like a painting in a sense rather then believe what is outwardly told
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:20PM) : The analogy to a painting is a good one.
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Jocelyn Davila Jocelyn Davila (Apr 24 2015 3:58PM) : Response more

Sotang refrains from using documentary because it limits her personal views. She didn’t want the audience to persive it as just a “documentary”, because it was way more personal to her. I guess she wanted the audience to create their own interpretation of the film and just view it for what it was.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:21PM) : perceive?
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Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:25PM) : Reply more

Sontag would resist the term documentary because it seemed too cookie cutter. In other words it restricted the real essence of her films. Documentary films are about documentations of events or people, whereas this film is more creative, and expressive. Especially with the use of audio, and imagery.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:21PM) : Documentaries, as you should know by now, are not cookie cutter products.
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The most striking thing about "Promised Lands," given who made it, is how little the film depends on words. There are a couple of talking heads in it, who provide some semblance of political and historical context, but Sontag's familiar voice is entirely absent — there are no titles and no voiceover — or rather, it has been transformed entirely and with surprising success into a cinematic voice.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:52PM) : Like Leni Riefenstahl, Sontag does not use a voiceover, or guiding voice. Why not? How does the lack of a narrator affect the film?
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Daniel Kvist Daniel Kvist (Apr 22 2015 11:30AM) : Reply more

“Promised Lands” managed to outrage both the pro-Israelis and the pro-Palestinians at the time of its release. The effect is rather more powerful due to the lack of voice-over. In the beginning of the documentary we see burned bodies and abandoned tanks, which says more than a voice could do. She makes the viewer perceive her work in their own way, and by not painting the picture for the viewer it becomes a more open-ended movie that can be interpreted in various ways and lead to interesting discussions about the conflict.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:41AM) : Open-ended is a good word to describe the film's impact.
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Jing Zhang Jing Zhang (Apr 22 2015 12:49PM) : To me personally, the lack of a narrator makes me feel like more experiencing Israel rather than being told how Israel is like. more

Sontag may believes that her visuals are powerful enough to elicit viewers’ emotions and sympathy on empty lands. Without a guiding voice, I did feel a little lost in context at the beginning, but it adds up the sense of lost tremendously as I focus entirely on what is being showed on screen.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:41AM) : Riefenstahl does not use a narrator either. And yet the two films are quite different. Why?
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 4:21PM) : Riefenstahl focuses on the people, Sontag speaks through the land. Also, the tone of the films are very different.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:06AM) : What is the difference?
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 22 2015 10:03PM) : Sontag's absent voice lets viewers interpret the film while not being tell on what is going. I believe Sontag wanting a showing of visual images to express the situation given than to depend on a commentary. more

This treats both sides of the conflict with something approaching empathy and fresh intellectual engagement for the viewers.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:42AM) : Of course there is commentary coming from Israelis who speak in the film.
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Annie Paul Annie Paul (Apr 23 2015 9:56AM) : It is more important to show, not tell more

The lack of voice allows the audience to grab what they need from the film and interpret it into their own opinions. It leaves unlimited space for inferences.
Sometimes, when a narrator has a strong presence in a film, it tells too much of the story, the audience starts to rely on it, and it becomes easier to miss key moments in the film because we think the story is being told to us. Without a narrator, Sontag allows people to see what she saw

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:07AM) : Yes, Sontag wants the viewer to do some work.
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 4:19PM) : Sontag allows the images to adopt the role of the narrator. She makes the very land she documents tell its own story, essentially making it the protagonist. Sontag refuses to distract from the subject matter by utilizing voice over narration.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:07AM) : She does not want the film to have one voice.
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Anson Chan Anson Chan (Apr 23 2015 4:27PM) : They both go with the show, dont tell approach, possibly because the images she shows are powerful enough on their own. This makes it easier for her to claim that the film doesnt force a point of view, but lets the viewer decide.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:08AM) : Right, although she has two major interviewees, who certainly express points of view.
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Alison Ng Alison Ng (Apr 23 2015 9:59PM) : Reply more

I personally think the lack of a narrator allows a viewer to become more engrossed in the film. With a narrator, one is constantly reminded that she is being spoken to. A voice presents certain information, and the viewer is supposed to accept that information and take it in.

The lack of a narrator allows the viewer to make her own conclusions about the things being presented.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:09AM) : The film is also about more than conveying information.
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Michelle Macauda Michelle Macauda (Apr 23 2015 10:58PM) : I think the lack of narrator gives the opportunity for the audience to draw their own conclusions about the film. more

I think the lack of narrator gives the opportunity for the audience to draw their own conclusions about the film. The film can have a stronger voice and that is one of they elements to a social documentary film.Sontag wants the audience to think and react on their first impressions and without being told by the narrator.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:09AM) : Right.
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Evie Horn Evie Horn (Apr 23 2015 11:51PM) : I believe the reason some filmmaker don't use a voiceover is to leave some ambiguity to the film and to give power to images rather than voices. [Edited] more

Both Sontag and Reifenstahl’s films chronicle war times. Though their films are different, the lack of commentary forces the viewer to really think about the impact of the images/film presented. Reifenstahl’s lack of voiceover was powerful, simply, because the power of the following behind Hitler was enough. Since Reifenstahl’s film was commissioned, she was showing one side of the war through her film, and did so affectively. Sontag’s film is different in the way that she was not trying to instill some higher voice or reason into the viewer. Sontag gives equal power to both sides of the war. She doesn’t take sides, but rather, silently, shows both sides via the images she captured. The power is given to the land itself, not her opinions of it.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:10AM) : Riefenstahl's film drives toward certain conclusions. Sontag's does not. Her film presents a problem.
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Hui Maggie Su Hui Maggie Su (Apr 24 2015 12:03AM) : Sontag didn't use a narration because she wants the viewer to experience Israel by watching the footages and hear the sounds made from the people in Israel. Riefenstahl didn't use narration because Hitler is the authority.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:10AM) : Right. There is no one authority figure in Sontag's film.
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Kerry Mack Kerry Mack (Apr 24 2015 8:01AM) : I don't think she uses a guiding voice because wars are two sided, and there is not always a right and a wrong. The only thing that is certain is that wars are devastating and traumatizing for both side. A guiding voice may have impressed opinions on more

the viewer that Sontag did not necessarily want audiences to be exposed to. She wanted people to see the devastation and form their own opinions about the war as a whole. Not who was right and who was wrong.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:23PM) : Sontag did not want to resolve issues by having one authoritative voice.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:29AM) : The lack of voiceover and talking heads, makes the film more authentic. To the viewer, it seems as though she is eliminating the bias that could come with a film like this. more

However, what this does it “show rather than tell”. Instead of making her argument with the use of people’s words, she makes it with the use of footage. This documentary is more modern so there are more clear ways for Sontag to make her argument. She can simply show the burnt bodies and the man reading from the book, and we already know how to feel about what is happening and how Sontag feels.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:24PM) : But the film does have talking heads.
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Christina Rivera Christina Rivera (Apr 24 2015 9:55AM) : In this film, a voice-over is not needed. The film itself describes how drastic situations are without having to be told. If there was a voice over, it may have taken away from the film. more

Not having a voice over really give the audience the opportunity to create what is happening in their minds and to think deeper about it. It also gives the opportunity of discussion. To see what others have to say about something they are viewing and not what they are being told.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:25PM) : The voice over is often equated with the voice of authority, and Sontag wanted the film to be more open ended, not just the product of a point of view.
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:40PM) : The images shown in the documentary have such impact that words dont really do them justice, but would rather take away from personal reaction the viewer feels while watching the documentary.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:26PM) : In film, anyway, words can sometimes get in the way.
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Jocelyn Davila Jocelyn Davila (Apr 24 2015 3:52PM) : Sontag & Riefenstahl more

I believe that Sotang’s vision is clear enough without the use of a voice over. Sometimes the voice over detracts the view of the audience, by not having a voice over the audience creates their own interpretation of the film. The images are just as impactful as Riefenstahl. yet the films are different because Riefenstahl gives the audience the sense of propaganda and Sotang’s does not.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:27PM) : Of course the arrangement of the images is also an interpretation.
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Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:30PM) : Reply more

The lack of narration allows the viewer to think for themselves. It also allowed Sontag to really be creative with the audio sounds, which seemed to evoke an emotional response from viewers. A narration would definitely make the film seem more documentary, and we know from this review that Sontag was clearly avoiding the documentary style of film. With a narration is would be harder to keep a viewers attention throughout the entire movie. However, without narration a viewer can really absorb the images and the interviews.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:28PM) : There is no documentary style as such, as Nichols shows. Many documentaries do not use voice over.
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Sontag was a skilled dialectician — she once said, "The very nature of thinking is but" — and "Promised Lands" does not advance a polemic so much as it dramatizes opposing points of view. The main interviewees are Yuval Ne'eman, a Zionist physicist who pioneered Israel's nuclear technology program, who delves into the deeply entrenched roots of Arab anti-Semitism, and Yoram Kaniuk, a liberal writer who supports Palestinian rights, who bemoans the rise of consumerist culture and describes the endless cycle of conflict as a tragic impasse: "We were right, and they were right."

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:54PM) : What does it mean to be a skilled dialectician? And how is the film dialectical?
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Daniel Kvist Daniel Kvist (Apr 22 2015 11:35AM) : Reply more

Sontag knows how to relate to the logical discussion of opinions and ideas. With the Palestine/Israeli conflict it’s all about opinions, ideas, and what side you choose to support. She is skilled in the sense of mastering a philosophical debate without taking a stand/side but leaves it to the reader/viewer.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:42AM) : Right, the film is present arguments.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 22 2015 10:45PM) : Sontag views the world in terms of complementary opposites and the lack of physical interactions thereof in Promised Lands [Edited] more

Sontag expressed her ideas that the treatment of Israel presented in film was not one sided. Even though the film got banned in Israel.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:43AM) : "physicals interactions thereof"? Explain.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 9:39PM) : The physicals interactions thereof is the lack of interaction with the camera (besides the two individuals that are talking). Sontag presents the context of opposing sides and it is up to the reader to decide what to do with the context.
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Annie Paul Annie Paul (Apr 23 2015 10:07AM) : She was more than sufficient in providing enough material to formulate an eloquent opinion for both sides more

It means you are able to go beyond opposing sides of an argument, creating an entirely new side while resisting an attraction to a specific one. In this case, “does not advance a polemic so much as it dramatizes opposing points of views” explains that Sontag was able to express both sides of a debate enough where the audience feels more than sufficient to create their own explanations and opinions given what she provided.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:11AM) : The film does not, however, include Palestinian voices.
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 4:32PM) : The philosophical meaning of "dialect" is a way of discussing opposing ideas to discover the truth. Sontag, then, is skilled at posing such debates. The film explores the oppositional relationship between Israel and Palestine.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:11AM) : Yes, this is a debate film.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:33AM) : Sontag was a skilled dialectician because she was able to clearly portray the main points of both arguments and show how they coincide and how they juxtapose. more

This film is dialectical because it shows the two sides of the argument being made. However, it does not include the opinions and voices of the Palestinians. By focusing so much on ordinary Israelis and not including ordinary Palestinians, it makes the viewer generalize what an ordinary Palestinian thinks and what an ordinary Israeli thinks.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:30PM) : I don't understand the last part of your statement. Since there are no Palestinians speaking, how is their view represented?
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:45PM) : A skilled dialectician means someone who can go to either side of the documentary and present themselves in such a way without necessary taking a strong stance on one side or the other as seen in the Israeli and Palestine points, a film more

dialectician allows the viewers to decide what they want to believe in a generally unbiased presentation.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:31PM) : I'm not sure about unbiased. But it is true that Sontag is not forcing a point of view.
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Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:35PM) : Reply more

This means that as a film maker Sontag is skilled at discussion, debate, dialogue, logical argument, or reasoning. The film is a discussion about Palestinian rights and culture in Israel.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:31PM) : And Israeli rights too.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:55PM) : How does the comment about we were right and they were right reflect on the film's title?
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Daniel Kvist Daniel Kvist (Apr 22 2015 11:44AM) : Reply more

The conflict has been going on for so long that it’s now a matter of stubbornness. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is over who gets what land and how it’s controlled. The statement sort of implies that it is an endless ridiculous fight with no winners and no losers. The land was promised to whom? It’s and ongoing debate and it’ll probably never be solved.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 23 2015 8:43AM) : I'm not sure about the ridiculous part. Wouldn't that undercut the gravity of the film?
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 12:16AM) : These comments reflect in the Promised Lands is which is saturated in tragic dilemma for a promise of peace that may never occur. [Edited] more

In a world of suffering and necessity, human beings are trapped in endless conflict. After the 1973 Yom Kippur War ended, Arab-Palestinan conflicts continues because they are unable to construct a rationale agreeable.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:13AM) : an agreeable rationale.
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Annie Paul Annie Paul (Apr 23 2015 10:15AM) : Everyone who wants the promise land is right [Edited] more

Ironically, the promised land is a land that opposing sides of the argument agree is beneficial to their own people. The religious factor is that both groups of people believe the land is only meant for them, therefore they war. However, they both believe the same thing, and are fighting due to pride. The Promise Land insinuates that the land is promised to all.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:13AM) : Just due to pride? Is that what the film suggests?
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Eva Evans Eva Evans (Apr 23 2015 4:33PM) : The comment shows how no one is really right in war. Both sides are as right as they are wrong.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:14AM) : Surely this is not true. Hitler was right and those against him were also right?
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Alison Ng Alison Ng (Apr 23 2015 10:03PM) : Reply more

If I am correct, the title reflects the fact that both groups were in fact, promised the land of Israel. I think this is the case because both religions say that that land is holy and that their people belong there.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:14AM) : Right
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Evie Horn Evie Horn (Apr 23 2015 11:57PM) : The idea of "we were right and they were right" has to do with the plural use of 'lands' in Promised Lands. more

Both the Israeli and the Palestinian people believe their land is the promised land. No body can be right if both sides so strongly believe the same thing. The way that Sontag leaves equal voice to both sides shows exactly that. If the film were titled ‘Promised Land’, there would be assumption that she were speaking for one side or the other.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:15AM) : Correct.
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Kerry Mack Kerry Mack (Apr 24 2015 8:04AM) : The pluralization of "Lands" is very important. The land means a different thing to both sides. However, it is sacred and special to both. "Lands" infers there is enough room to share, or the potential to live side-by-side because there is enough to more

go around.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:15AM) : And yet both sides find it so difficult to share. What is the film saying about this difficulty?
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:54AM) : The comment "We were right and they were right" just goes to show the debate surrounding this controversial issue. Moses lead the Jewish to the Promised Land, but the film's title makes a plural form of this noun. more

The plurality of promised land shows that everyone has a wanting for a different promised land and therefore, there will also be different means in achieving this promised land. The film’s title is another example of Sontag as a dialectician because again, she incorporates both arguments even in her title.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:34PM) : Good points. Moses led, not lead
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:48PM) : We were right and they were right refers to everyone seeing themselves as the correct party within their own groups, both Israel and Palestine can prove that it is their right to the land and both vigilantly believe in their credibility to the rights.
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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:35PM) : Right.

Political arguments aside, "Promised Lands" makes its strongest impression through sounds and images. The approach to editing is also dialectic, founded on rhythmic juxtapositions, as with the Soviet silent style; the opening montage of Jerusalem rooftops matches television antennae with religious iconography. The sound design, as intricate as it is unexpected, pieces together footsteps, prayer chants, radar beeps, far-off explosions and machine-gun fire.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:56PM) : Compare the use of sound in Man with a Movie Camera, Triump of the Will, Listen to Britain, and Promised Lands.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 8:22PM) : Promised Lands use of sound is a visual collage with snatches of radio, bursts of church bells and gunfire. [Edited] more

In “Man with a Movie Camera”, the music brings energetic and rhythmic atmosphere of the Soviet reality.“Triumph of the Will” demonstrate the discipline, organization and unity of the Nazi Party of Germany. Hitler delivers his speeches with the power of expression was somewhat mesmerizing. A scene in" Listen to Britain" where their were soldiers on a railway carriage singing along to a guitar, and women at work singing to the radio helps emphasis that the people of Britain are setting to their work fearlessly and in good spirit. It is music which unites them even though wartime.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:16AM) : Sound and music can really make a huge difference in meaning and interpretation.
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Raymond Urrutia Raymond Urrutia (Apr 24 2015 7:54AM) : Music Comparisons more

In Man with a Movie Camera is energetic and has a sort of tempo to it in regards to what is shown as we see a multitude Russian industry, infrastructure and employment. Triumph of the Will is much more dramatic and powerful in its music. This type of music is used to highlight the NSP’s rigorous discipline and charisma as well as adding to Adolf Hitler’s deity-like persona. Listen To Britain used more of the actual sounds that are being made by people and machinery and focused mainly on upbeat popular music that was being played on radio’s and parties at the time. Promised Lands does more of what Listen To Britain does then the other two. There is no real upbeat music like Man with a Movie Camera because this isn’t meant to be an upbeat film. Same can be said for the dramatic and powerful music used in Triumph of the Will. Promised lands uses the actual sounds that are being recorded along with the visual and when they do use music, it sounds like they are using the audio of someone that they recorded actually singing.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:18AM) : So the music and sound reflect the ideology of the filmmaker.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 10:01AM) : Using this argument, wouldn't it then be true that in Triumph of the Will, the music and sound which caused viewers to look in awe at Hitler, reflect the idea that the filmmaker was in awe of Hitler? more

I think that with this argument, it would be hard for Riefenstahl to deny this interpretation.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:33PM) : Riefenstahl would deny it, saying it was her goal to make her subject attractive and that she would have done the same for any subject--that is, make that subject attractive for the film.
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Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 1:53PM) : The Man with the Movie camera focuses more on a light rhythmic music playing to create an energetic atmosphere. The Triumph of the Will had more of a unified sound of crowds and army marches to create a well organized structured feel to video more

Listen to britain had more of a lighter but subtly serious tone as it was also talking about war but also relying how people still live daily with singing and such. Promise Lands had very warlike sounds, guns and tanks and fires, which promoted a darker serious movie interpretation.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:37PM) : Right
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The film's observational passages take in daily life on the streets, prayers at the Wailing Wall, a service at the war cemetery, a wax museum that memorializes Israel's often violent history and, most memorably, the aftermath of the desert combat. Sontag ventures into a psychiatric ward for shellshocked veterans to document an experimental treatment that re-creates battlefield sounds, driving the traumatized patient to cower under his bed. Surveying the surreal landscape, her camera pauses on the wreckage of incinerated tanks and blackened corpses surrounded by flies.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:57PM) : Compare the treat of war in Listen to Britain, The Way We Live, and Promised Lands.
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Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 8:47PM) : In Promised Lands, shows the aftermath with a observational point of view sequences detailing moments from desert landscapes, patrols of roadside soldiers, old men and women at the Wailing Wall that allows the viewer to experience the surreal landscape. [Edited] more

As a viewer there is a feeling of peace and unification in “Listen to Britain”. The comparisons between quiet scenes from everyday life and the manic, unreal struggle of the war effort shows a balance between harmony and chaos without directing showing war. The war aftermath, shows the assembly of people in “The Way We Live” had emphasis on integrating continuity and changes a community coming together for a brighter future.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:19AM) : The war becomes a motivation for building a better way of life.
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Alison Ng Alison Ng (Apr 23 2015 10:07PM) : Reply more

In Listen to Britain and The Way We Live, the horrors of war aren’t really touched upon. Instead, it is shaped in a more promising, hopeful light. Even though bad things happen, people still go on and prevail and live. In Promised Lands, Sontag shows war as the nightmare that it is – destruction, death and suffering.

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:19AM) : Both films wants to show how society can persist even in the midst of war.
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Khrystyna Melnyk Khrystyna Melnyk (Apr 24 2015 9:49AM) : I think that The Way We Live and Listen to Britain have a much easier task of establishing who was right and who was wrong. more

Even the names, Allies and Axis, show a clear winner and a clear loser. This can be seen especially with Listen to Britain because it shows how the people of Britain are “peaceful and only defending themselves”. With Promised Lands, it becomes much harder to establish the definite roles of who was right and who was wrong. As Yoram Kaniuk said, “They were right and we were right.”

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:36PM) : Good points.
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Christina Rivera Christina Rivera (Apr 24 2015 10:17AM) : As professor responded to this, both films show how society can continue on and live life after war. more

As a viewer of these films, my reaction to the two at the end were both similar. Although Listen to Britain shows more of a hopeful light, and Promised Lands really focuses on the negative, they both still show prevailing after war

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:39PM) : prevailing after war? Explain
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Apr 24
Raymond Urrutia Raymond Urrutia (Apr 24 2015 7:35AM) : War Comparisons [Edited] more

Listen to Britain highlights a country that seems indifferent to the severity of their current predicament, which in a way showcases the country’s defiance to their enemy’s agenda. The Way We Live showcases how the drawdown of war affects individual’s perspectives on their community in regards to real estate, infrastructure and political policy. Promised Lands delivers more of the horrors of war by showcasing its potential for destruction and death while also showing the negative effect it has on those who are still living after it is over.

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Apr 24
Professor Carl Rollyson

A University of Toronto Ph.D, Rollyson has published more … (more)

Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:21AM) : I wouldn't use the word indifferent.
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It goes without saying that Sontag wrestled with the moral responsibility of bearing witness to these horrors. "Anything about any war that does not show the appalling concreteness of destruction and death is a dangerous lie," she wrote in the Vogue piece. Sontag wrestled with the moral quandaries of photography and photojournalism in her seminal volume "On Photography." In her final book, "Regarding the Pain of Others," she revisited the same dilemmas, and arrived at some modified conclusions, which apply to much of what we see in "Promised Lands."

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Jan 18
Professor Carl Rollyson

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Professor Carl Rollyson (Jan 18 2015 4:59PM) : Promised Lands, like The Way We Live, is a rebuke to what Sontag calls "fascist aesthetics." How does this paragraph present an antidote to Riefenstahl's method of filmmaking?
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Apr 23
Daniel Figueroa Daniel Figueroa (Apr 23 2015 9:29PM) : I believe this paragraph which notions of purity, beauty, authenticity, and threat from a event like war characterizes Riefenstahl's method of filmmaking. It too might easily be considered fascist because of the way it is presented.
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Apr 24
Professor Carl Rollyson

A University of Toronto Ph.D, Rollyson has published more … (more)

Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 24 2015 8:22AM) : Hard to follow.
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Apr 24
Student Michelle Gontar Student Michelle Gontar (Apr 24 2015 2:00PM) : This paragraph shows Sontag's antidote to Riefenstahl's method of filmmaking by criticizing how one cant look at war as glorious without thinking of the after effects and dangers of being in war. Sontag is saying that promoting war without showing its more

downfalls is dangerous to the people who innocently watch without understanding the impending destruction that manifest of such circumstances.

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A University of Toronto Ph.D, Rollyson has published more … (more)

Apr 25
Professor Carl Rollyson

A University of Toronto Ph.D, Rollyson has published more … (more)

Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:40PM) : Can anyone "innocently watch"?
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Apr 24
Julissa Soriano Julissa Soriano (Apr 24 2015 10:43PM) : Reply more

So we know that Sontag was a witness to horrors like tanks and corpses, and I think this is what makes this such an incredible film. Its raw and vulnerable. She risked her own life to capture the desert combat. I really like how Lim included her quote "Anything about any war that does not show the appalling concreteness of destruction and death is a dangerous lie. " This reassures us that she was willing to pay the cost of risking her life to get to the truth.

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Apr 25
Professor Carl Rollyson

A University of Toronto Ph.D, Rollyson has published more … (more)

Professor Carl Rollyson (Apr 25 2015 3:42PM) : Yes, raw and vulnerable are the words.
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DMU Timestamp: January 07, 2015 02:48

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