Lester Spence

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BLACK PEOPLE AND NONWHITE PEOPLE IN GENERAL ARE USUALLY AT THE BOTTOM. YOU THINK ABOUT HEALTH ISSUES. BLACK PEOPLE ARE USUALLY SICKER. IF YOU THINK ABOUT EDUCATION ISSUES, BLACK PEOPLE HAVE LESS ACCESS TO QUALITY EDUCATION THAN WHITES DO. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WEALTH ISSUES, HOUSING ISSUES, BLACK PEOPLE HAVE LESS ACCESS TO QUALITY HOUSING. IT IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS GOING ON IN PLACES LIKE BALTIMORE IN DETROIT AND THE ST. LOUIS AREA AND FERGUSON. HOST: YOU WROTE RECENTLY IN A PIECE THAT BALTIMORE IS A TIME BOMB. BEFORE FREDDIE GRAY'S DEATH, THAT WAS THE SPARK, THE CITY WAS DANGEROUSLY DIVIDED.

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Lester Spence

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THERE ARE ONLY THREE PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS IN BALTIMORE THAT HAVE KIDS THAT CAN ROUTINELY BE STRONG ENOUGH TO GO TO HOPKINS. BALTIMORE HAS DOZENS OF HIGH SCHOOLS. SO IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A SET OF POLICIES GOING BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY, THEY HAVE KIND OF PUT THEIR FOOT ON BLACK PEOPLE'S NEXT. OVER TIME, IN A COUPLE OF INSTANCES IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, THAT HAS GENERATED SIGNIFICANT PUSHBACK. WHEN MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS ASSASSINATED, AND THEN MOST RECENTLY LAST WEEK AGO, WE HAD AN UPRISING IN REACTION TO FREDDIE GRAY'S'S DEATH. A LOT OF PEOPLE FOCUS ON ATTITUDES. BLACK PEOPLE ARE THINKING ONE THING AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE THINKING ANOTHER. IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE AN ARRAY OF RESOURCES ROUTINELY WITHHELD FROM BLACK POPULATIONS AND NONWHITE POPULATIONS IN GENERAL. HOST: I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF MARYLAND. THE FORMER MARYLAND GOVERNOR ARGUED MORE MONEY IS NOT THE ANSWER TO FIXING BALTIMORE'S PROBLEMS. TAKE A LOOK. >>

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Lester Spence

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PROXIMALLY 1991, BALTIMORE'S'S CITY SPENT APPROXIMATELY $37 MILLION IN PARKS AND REC. 2015, THEY SPENT ABOUT $37 MILLION ON PARKS AND REC. 1991, THEY SPENT ABOUT 170 MILLION ON POLICE. 2015, THEY SPENT ABOUT $450 MILLION ON POLICE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT MONEY BEING KIND OF ON ZERO TOLERANCE, BASICALLY ANTI-BLACK STRATEGY. IF THAT IS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, THEN YES, THROWING MORE MONEY ON THE PROBLEM MAKES IT WORSE. HOST: THE WASHINGTON TIMES EDITORIAL, THEY WRITE THAT THE LIBERAL MANTRA IS TO TRANSFORM THESE AREAS MUST BE REFUTED BY COLFAX. PRESIDENT OBAMA'S LAW ASSIGNED $1.8 BILLION TO THE CITY OF

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Lester Spence

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BEEN LIKE HOUSING POLICIES THAT TOOK BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND LABEL THEM IS NOT WORTHY OF INVESTMENT, WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLICIES THAT ROUTINELY CAUSE BLACK PEOPLE TO GET LESS BANG FOR THEIR BUCK AS FAR AS TAXES AND EDUCATION, THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT IS POLICY THAT KIND OF PUTS MONEY BEHIND INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS. THERE IS NOT A WAY AROUND THAT. IT IS INTERESTING. YOU THINK ABOUT BALTIMORE CITY AND BALTIMORE COUNTY OR DETROIT WHERE I AM FROM, THOSE SUBURBS, THOSE AREAS WERE CREATED BY THE G.I. BILL, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT. IT WAS ALSO CREATED BY THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY DEFENSE ACT. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN SPENDING. I DO NOT SEE HOW WE ALL THE SUDDEN SAY GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WORK WHEN IT COMES TO DEAL WITH LIBERAL AND RADICAL NEEDS. HOST: LET'S GET OUR VIEWERS INVOLVED. WE'RE TALKING WITH LESTER SPENCE ,

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Lester Spence

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BALTIMORE, THE WHOLE CITY, LIKE OH MY GOSH, THE WHOLE CITY IS ON FIRE. THERE WERE ONLY A FEW HOTSPOTS. IF YOU GO TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THE HOTSPOTS WERE, AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM JUST TWO WEEKS AGO, YOU SEE IF THEY SUFFER FROM THIS -- FOR DECADES. IT IS NOT A NEW THING, FIRST OF ALL HER SECOND OF ALL, I JUST -- IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE PEOPLE REBELLED AGAINST. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AN ISSUE IN WHICH A KID, FREDDIE GRAY, BASICALLY HAD HIS SPINE BROKEN BY POLICE. SO POLICE ARE SUPPOSED TO SERVE AND PROTECT PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TEND TO VIEW POLICE AS AN OCCUPYING FORCE. IF WE THINK ABOUT THEM IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS WITHOUT TAKING THE POLITICAL DYNAMIC, WHAT WE END UP DOING IS RENDERING THEM LESS THAN HUMAN AND IT ENDS UP BEING REALLY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THEIR ACTIONS AS BEING ONE OF A LONG SET OF ACTIONS OF PEOPLE BASICALLY PREVAIL -- REBELLING AGAINST RESIDENT GOVERNMENT. HOST: LEON, GO AHEAD. CALLER: MORNING, UNITED STATES. MY NAME IS LEON.

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Lester Spence

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PRIORITY, AND WHAT HAPPENED IN BALTIMORE, WHAT HAPPENED IN FERGUSON, AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT IN NEW YORK, I AM HOPING THAT IT GENERATES MORE POLITICAL WILL FROM THE GRASSROOTS GOING UP FOR SPENDING PROGRAMS WE KNOW WORK. HOST: WHY DOES IT WORK? WHAT DOES THE MONEY GO FOR? GUEST: FOR PROVIDING AN ARRAY OF PROGRAMS THAT ALLOWS KIDS TO SPEND MORE TIME IN COMMUNITY CENTERS.

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Lester Spence

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BALTIMORE USED TO HAVE SOMEWHERE AROUND 60, 70 COMMUNITY CENTERS. THAT NUMBER HAS BEEN CUT IN WAR THAN HALF. -- IN MORE THAN HALF. IT GOES INTO A NUMBER OF PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO MAKE PARTS BETTER, SO YOU HAVE GREEN SPACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN INTERACT IN. THAT CREATES BETTER RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS AND DEVELOPED TRUST IN GOVERNMENT. MOST OF THE PEOPLE AND PLACES LIKE WINCHESTER WHERE FREDDIE GRAY WAS KILLED, THE ONLY GOVERNMENT IS IN THE FORM OF A FIST THAT EXPANDS THEIR TRUST IN GOVERNMENT. THAT HAS ALL TYPES OF OUTCOMES GOING FOR IT. THAT EDUCATION VERSUS INCARCERATION NUMBER JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE THAT IN A NATION THAT PROFESSES TO BE ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD, ONE OF THE BEST ON THE PLANET, THAT IT SPENDS MORE INCARCERATING PEOPLE ON AVERAGE THAN IT DOES EDUCATING. HOST: WE HEAR FROM CRAIG NEXT FROM MAINE. GO AHEAD, CRAIG. CALLER: I WANTED TO TELL MR.

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Lester Spence

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UNLIKE OUR RURAL COUNTERPARTS, PEOPLE IN CITIES, IN HARD-HIT URBAN NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY TEND TO HAVE A SENSE THAT GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAS A ROLE TO PLAY IN SOLVING PROBLEMS THAT THEY CREATED. TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, CRAIG EVINCES THE IDEA THAT GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS A PROBLEM. THAT IS THE FIRST THING. THE SECOND THING IS THAT IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT MAKING A CLAIM NECESSARILY THAT RESOURCES ARE SPENT THAT WE ARE NOT GETTING ENOUGH MONEY. WHAT I AM MAKING AN ARGUMENT FOR IS THE TYPE -- THAT WE ARE NOT GETTING ENOUGH GOVERNMENT. THE TYPE OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE GETTING. THAT AREA WHERE FREDDIE GRAY WAS KILLED, THEY SPEND $47 MILLION A YEAR IN INCARCERATING. THAT IS GOVERNMENT SPENDING. THAT GOVERNMENT THAT NOBODY NEEDS. AND, YES, PART OF IT IS ABOUT KIND OF POLITICAL REPRESENTATIVES THAT DO NOT REPRESENT, THAT DO NOT REPRESENT THEIR CONSTITUENTS. TO THAT EXTENT, IT IS ABOUT DEVELOPING A POLITICAL CULTURE WHERE INDIVIDUALS CAN SAY YOU ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE WANTED YOU TO DO. IN FACT, I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT IS WHY MARILYN MOSBY IS IN OFFICE RIGHT NOW AS OPPOSED TO THE PERSON SHE RAN AGAINST AREA THAT IS A BIPARTISAN DYNAMIC, BUT IT IS NOT LIKE WE ARE LOOKING ON MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT PROGRESSIVELY TO THE WITH THESE ISSUES IN THESE CITIES. WHAT THEY ARE GETTING IS POLICING. HOST: LESTER SPENCE, POLITICAL SCIENCE ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT JOHNS HOPKINS. TEMPLE HILLS, MARYLAND, HIGH, JASON.

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Lester Spence

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CALLER: AND THAT IS FINE. AVERAGE, BUT WHEN I GREATBATCH I HAD A B AVERAGE. BUT WHEN I GRADUATED, I HAD CHOICES. WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH LIFE?

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Lester Spence

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IT IS ABOUT THE SAME, PRETTY MUCH. SO HOW ARE WE TO EXPLAIN -- IS OUR RAMBLING AND TRIFLING IS THE SAME -- IF FOR EXAMPLE BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY TO USE DRUGS THAN WHITE AND LESS LIKELY -- BUT THE ARRESTS ARE MUCH HIGHER, WHERE DOES CHOICE PLAY A ROLE IN THAT? WE CAN SAY THAT CHOICE PLAYS A ROLE AS AN INDIVIDUAL. I WAS ABOUT TO SAY A NAME. YOU COULD POINT TO THAT SINGLE RANDOM AND TRIFLING PERSON AND SAY YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE. BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A NEIGHBORHOOD FULL OF THEM AND YOU GO TO ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE PEOPLE MAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE LOOT, WHERE PEOPLE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE EDUCATION, THEY DO THE SAME RAMBLING AND TRIFLING STUFF BUT DO NOT GET ARRESTED FOR IT THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES. THAT IS POLITICS. CALLER: I GET WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY. GUEST: I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY. I AM SAYING IT. CALLER: I HEAR EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

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Lester Spence

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YEAH, I AM MOST LIKELY GOING TO GET ARRESTED THAN IN THE SUBURBS BECAUSE I LOOK LIKE THE SAME THING.

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Lester Spence

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NO, NO. WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT -- ONE OF THE NARRATIVES THAT HAS BEEN PRODUCED AND REPRODUCED FOR OVER 150 YEARS IS THIS NARRATIVE THAT FOR BLACK PEOPLE, FOR BLACK PEOPLE TOGETHER CITIZENSHIP RIGHT, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO ACT RIGHT. IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ONLY HAVE FREE SPEECH IF YOUR PANTS ARE -- WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS COMBINE THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY NARRATIVE THAT I CAN GIVE TO MY KIDS WITH THE LARGER POLITICAL CRITIQUE THAT, NO, IF WE HAVE THIS SPAN OF GAPS -- THERE ARE PEOPLE FOR WHOM LIFE IS CONSISTENTLY HARD, AND THEY ARE RANDOM -- THERE RAMBLING AND TRIFLING IS ABOUT AVERAGE BUT THEY ARE STILL CONSISTENTLY HARD, WE HAVE TO POINT TO GOVERNMENT BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS USUALLY THE CULPRIT. THIS IS NOT THE WAY THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AND WE CAN DO IT ANOTHER WAY. HOST: LET'S GO ON TO IRA IN LEWISBURG, NORTH CAROLINA. FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT? GO AHEAD. CALLER: GOOD MORNING, PROFESSOR SMITH -- PROFESSOR SPENCE.

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Lester Spence

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THAT NIGHTSTICK THING -- THAT IS REAL. I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ANTI-BLACK POLICE. IT IS UNDER -- IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANTI-BLACK PEOPLE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANTI-BLACK WORKING-CLASS POLICING, POLICING THAT SHOWS PEOPLE THE FIST OF GOVERNMENT CONSISTENTLY IN NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE WINCHESTER, WHERE FREDDIE GRAY WAS KILLED, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO -- HE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I DO NOT SEE HOW WE CAN TALK ABOUT THESE INCIDENCES WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT RACE, WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT RACISM AND CLASS FOR IT HOST:. HOST: OSCAR, GOOD MORNING. CALLER: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK CRAIG TO DOWNLOAD YESTERDAY'S "WASHINGTON JOURNAL.

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Lester Spence

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BUT AFTER 1970'S SUPPORT FOR THAT WENDELL, AND THEN WITH THE ELECTION OF REAGAN YOU SEE THAT MONEY SIGNIFICANTLY CUT, AND THEN THE CITY POSSIBILITY -- AND THEN THE CITY'S ABILITY -- THE CITY IS ENGAGING IN ENTREPRENEURIAL ACTIVITIES THAT GIVE TAX CUTS FOR DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT IN THE HOPES THAT WOULD TRICKLE DOWN -- IN THE BALTIMORE CONTEXT -- WHAT, CAMDEN YARDS? I THINK IT COST AROUND $110 MILLION OR SO TO BUILD -- THE ORIOLES ONLY SPENT $9 MILLION. THE REST OF THAT CAME FROM TAXES. GOING BACK TO USING DETROIT, THEY ARE ABOUT TO BUILD A RED WINGS STADIUM, $400 MILLION STADIUM. IT IS ALL TAX MONEY. WHAT YOU SEE IS THIS USE OF CITY RESOURCES, GOVERNMENT RESOURCES, TO REPRODUCE THE GAP BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND HAVE-NOTS. BECAUSE BLACKS TEND TO BE PART OF THE HAVE KNOTS, THEY ARE LOSING OUT. IN THE BALTIMORE CASE, WE HAVE A STRONG MAYOR SYSTEM WHERE MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS BLAKE HOLDS A LOT OF CARDS. WHAT WOULD BE REALLY POSITIVE WOULD BE IF MAYORS LIKE STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE ACTUALLY SPOKE CLEARLY ABOUT THE NEED FOR MORE INVESTMENT IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND STARTED PUSHING CORPORATE INVESTORS LIKE UNDER ARMOUR TO GIVE RESOURCES TO BE CORPORATE CITIZENS. HOST: FROM COLUMBUS, OHIO, YOU ARE ON THE AIR. CALLER: THERE ARE TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS. THE FACT THAT HISTORICALLY WE HAD DESTROYED THE BEST LEADER WE EVER HAD, AND THAT WAS IN BOOKER T.

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Lester Spence

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BALTIMORE SPENDS 57 TIMES MORE ON SWAT TEAMS THAN ON POLICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS.

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Lester Spence

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THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. POLICE, AS FAR AS THEIR TRAINING ON HOW TO DEAL WITH VIOLENCE, THEY TRAIN CONSISTENTLY TO BE PUNITIVE AS OPPOSED TO MORE NONVIOLENT APPROACHES. SO THERE IS A WHOLE SUITE OF POLICIES THAT WE CAN IMPLEMENT IN ORDER TO MAKE POLICE ACT MORE HUMANELY. AS FAR AS THE BOOKER T. WASHINGTON THING, I HAVE SEEN A BIT ON THE WASHINGTON VERSUS DUBOIS CASE. BUSINESSES OWNED BY THE WORKER -- THERE HAS BEEN A PUSH IN BALTIMORE FROM A NUMBER OF ACTIVISTS FOR MORE WORKER COOPERATIVES AS OPPOSED TO KIND OF BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE A BLACK CAPITALIST MAKE MONEY, BUT LACK WORKERS MAKE LESS. THE WORKER COURT -- YOU MIGHT HAVE A BLACK CAPITALIST MAKE MONEY, WHAT BLACK WORKERS MAKE LESS. AND PROVIDE KIND OF A RANGING NEED FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES AND OFFER -- OFFER TO EMPLOY A NUMBER OF THEM. ONE OF YOUR CHARGES ABOUT INCARCERATION IS THAT ONE OF YOU -- ONCE YOU HAVE A RECORD, NOBODY WANTS TO HIRE YOU. IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE A LOT OF THE FOLKS HAVE RECORD, IT EVEN FOR MINOR THINGS, THEY'RE BASICALLY UNEMPLOYABLE. SO DEVELOPING WORKER COOPERATIVES CAN HELP EMPLOY THEM AND BUILD CAPITAL AND BUILD ECONOMIC CAPITAL. HOST: WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE WHOLE THAN THE BOX MOVEMENT -- AND THE BOX MOVEMENT. WE ARE NOT DONE YET. WE GO TO DANIELLE IN MILWAUKEE -- DANIEL IN MILWAUKEE. CALLER: THANK YOU.

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Lester Spence

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WHEN YOU THINK CALLERS. BUT ONE THING CONSERVATIVES ARE KNOWN FOR ARTICULATING IS THAT HEALTHY DISTRUST TO GOVERNMENT. THEY RARELY APPLY THAT WHEN IT COMES TO POLICING OF LACK COMMUNITIES. -- OF BLACK COMMUNITIES. HEALTHY CONSERVATIVE SKEPTICISM OF THE POLICE IS WARRANTED. THAT SKEPTICISM IS NOT JUST ABOUT INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS, HOW WE DEAL WITH INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS. IT DEALS WITH THE POLICE AS AN INSTITUTION. THAT SKEPTICISM CAN CAUSE US TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DO NOT THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA THAT WE GIVE POLICE 300% MORE RESOURCES WHEN ALL THEY ARE DOING IS BASICALLY ANTI-BLACK. HOST: WHAT ABOUT BLACK POLICE OFFICERS? THERE WAS A PIECE BY A BLACK POLICE OFFICER ABOUT HOW PEOPLE IN FREDDIE GRAY'S NEIGHBORHOOD WILL TELL YOU IT IS A BLACK POLICE OFFICERS WHO COME DOWN ON THEM JUST AS HARD.

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Lester Spence

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RACISM IS ABOUT THE SUBJECT. IT IS ABOUT -- I'M SORRY, THE OBJECT. IT IS ABOUT THESE BLACK KIDS WHO ARE BEING POLICED. WE WANT BLACK PEOPLE TO BE EMPLOYED, THAT COULD BE A GOOD LOOK. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS CHANGE, SIMPLY ADDING MORE POLICE OFFICERS IS NOT GOING TO DO A THING. HOST: KEVIN IN RANDALLSTOWN, MARYLAND, LAW ENFORCEMENT. GO AHEAD. CALLER: THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. I AM A 22 YEAR VETERAN OF THE BALTIMORE CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, LIVED IN BALTIMORE CITY ALL OF MY LIFE. I AM A PASTOR NOW. I WAS ON THE FRONT LINE WHEN WE WERE PROTESTING AND TRYING TO QUIET DOWN THE COMMUNITY IN BALTIMORE.

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Lester Spence

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A NUMBER OF MY RADICAL COLLEAGUES ARE -- I AM NOT NECESSARILY ONE OF THOSE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE FOLKS WHO SAY THAT POLICE PROBLEMS ARE A PROBLEM, IS A BAD APPLE PROBLEM. I THINK IT IS A COMBINATION OF -- I THINK IT IS A PUBLIC POLICY ISSUE. YOU CAN TAKE WHEN GOVERNOR O'MALLEY, FORMER GOVERNOR O'MALLEY WAS THE MAYOR OF BALTIMORE -- AND I THINK A FOUR-YEAR PERIOD, HE ARRESTED MORE PEOPLE THAN BALTIMORE HAS. HE MADE APPROXIMATELY 700,000 ARRESTS, AND BALTIMORE HAS 640 THOUSAND PEOPLE. THOSE ARRESTS WERE LATER FOUND TO BE ILLEGAL, AND THEY WERE CHANGING PEOPLE'S LIVES, CHANGING PEOPLE'S ORIENTATION TOWARD POLICE IN GENERAL. YES, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN DOING THEIR JOBS AND UPHOLDING TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY -- THEIR BADGE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY TO THE STAND THAT I COULD MAKE IT TO A GOOD LOOK. TO ENHANCE OUR ABILITY TO LIVE OUR LIVES. BUT THERE IS A SET OF PUBLIC POLICIES THAT INCENSE OF I'S -- THAT INCENTIVIZE POLICE TO PERFORM POORLY. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS THAT MARYLAND HAS, WHEN THEY ARE CAUGHT PERFORMING POORLY, POLICE, OVER 100 PEOPLE DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY. IT IS VERY HARD TO INDICT THEM. YOU DO NOT WANT A CIRCUMSTANCE, EVEN IF EVERYBODY -- EVEN IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS ARE REALLY GOOD FOLKS, GOING BACK TO THAT CONSERVATIVE SENSE OF SKEPTICISM, I WOULD ARGUE, GIVE A INSTITUTION LIKE THAT TOO MUCH POWER, AND EVEN GOOD FOLKS ARE GOING TO GO BAD. HOST: LESTER SPENCE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY. YOU CAN FOLLOW HIM ON TWITTER AND GO TO LEICESTERSPENT -- TO LEICESTER--

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