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TTT 03.11.2020 Calling Online Educators: How can we help our colleagues whose courses have already gone or might soon go online?

Author: Teachers Teaching Teachers

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Mar-12-20 Chat Transcript from Zoom (simultaneous with the video stream)

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Eternity is in love with the creations of time.

Mar 12
Terry Elliott

Eternity is in love with the creations of time.

(Mar 12 2020 10:30AM) : Love the emphatic here. more

“Let’s start!” I noted in email to Paul that this was a timely TTT and even more it came at a time where people were in a pause, not a freefall, in considering this issue. Good in TTT for sharing. And, as always, thanks for the invitation to participate. That is Paul’s superpower—being a great facilitator/inviter.

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(Mar 13 2020 11:32AM) : Welcome from "Teachers Teaching Teachers" facilitator Paul Allison (NYC secondary school teacher and National Writing Project tech leader).
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(Mar 13 2020 11:04AM) : Paul's motivation for this session -- "How can we help our colleagues who are not online teachers?"
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(Mar 13 2020 11:08AM) : Prof. Troy Hicks, Central Michigan University, on the timetable for move to online at his school.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:11AM) : Prof. Kristen Turner, Drew University; teachers have three days to get classes online (status to be re-evaluated in early April).
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(Mar 13 2020 11:18AM) : Prof. Terry Elliott, Western Kentucky University: they have a week (extended spring break) to prepare.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:22AM) : Dave Cormier, University of Windsor -- only two universities in Canada have switched to online, most trying to make it next 2+ weeks to end of term! Not sure good idea, but...
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 11:25AM) : Dan Doernberg, NowComment Developer-- University of Virginia (UVA) announced switch to online-only courses with just a day or two notice.
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 11:28AM) : Paul Allison-- CUNY and SUNY have shifted to online only. At local NYC high schools it feels like this may be coming but hard to know.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:35AM) : Jeff Dierking teaches English at vocational school near Kansas City-- not much impact there so far.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:38AM) : Chris Sloan, High School teacher in Utah-- faculty meeting to identify whether school was ready to shift to online; some were panicked, others confident.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:40AM) : Paul Allison-- for those of us who have been doing online education a long time, is this a good thing or bad thing for us?
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(Mar 13 2020 12:31PM) : Dave Cormier: when all the houses in town fall down, carpenters get lots of work, but don't do their best work!
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(Mar 13 2020 2:24PM) : Jeff Dierking: for teachers who haven't tried online yet, this may be event that forces/motivates them to try it (boat going down, have to learn to swim!) [Edited] more

Dave reply — he has to help others learn to swim while swimming himself, not easy!

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(Mar 13 2020 2:29PM) : Dave Cormier-- his concern is that best practices have shown best way to introduce new is to start small and evolve slowly; this is throwing newbies into deepend without any significant prep! more

He’s trying to support instructors via accumulated words of wisdom, dropins, and intensive trainings… but normal instincts to take things a step at a time have to be ignored in this situation.

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(Mar 13 2020 2:48PM) : Terry Elliott has qualms at multiple levels about online only as a crisis response; he has lots of experience with online and hybrid courses and doesn't love online-only (e.g. feels it's not as good for studying literature). [Edited] more
1. if teachers aren’t experienced, needs some attitudinal tricks to help them through (eg take it 1 week at a time) and may not know practical little things that really help new students make it through (eg create demo screencasts for them in advance). 2. At student level, many poor kids really need the food schools supply. 3. Politically, worries that some educational companies will use this crisis to try to push to privitize the educational system.
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(Mar 13 2020 3:00PM) : Paul Allison: He and Dan Doernberg and were talking about how to maybe use NowComment as a sample tool to illustrate techniques for how teachers new to online-only might get by...
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(Mar 13 2020 3:05PM) : Troy Hicks: Feels more important to him to make post-crisis conversation be about good teaching, whether that's online or face-to-face or mixed... not any specific platform or tool. [Edited] more

Shouldn’t just map the existing bricks and mortar schedule onto online; online allows more creativity and flexibility, e.g. can combine some large group instruction with some small group collaboration, some 1:1 time, some independent/self study time, etc. Are more opportunities to take advantage of. No reason kids have to sit in front of computer screen the whole time (not an issue of not wasting a minute… plenty of minutes are wasted in physical classrooms during the school day!!).

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(Mar 13 2020 3:49PM) : Chris Sloan: Admin and teachers may be tempted to try to do same things do in the face-to-face classroom and implement online; reasonable, but not necessarily doable. Things like taking attendance. more

It’s not easy, but online lets/makes us restructure our relationships with students in new ways.

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(Mar 13 2020 3:58PM) : Dave Cormier-- How we handle this ("Pedagogy of Care") is probably more important than what do; need attitude shift to embrace uncertainty of difficult new situation. more

Lots teachers strive for excellence by being prepared for all eventualities, and that won’t be possible here. Students will be looking to instructors (multiple ones in multiple classes) to help them through. Instructors have cultural responsibility to accept and reasure students when things don’t work or go as planned.

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(Mar 13 2020 4:00PM) : Kristen Turner-- Instructors will feel uncomfortable in new situation, but critical to keep focus on students. more

Both teachers and students have been trying to learn how to learn via technology, but we’re not there yet. Give yourselves and your students a break, acknowledge that we’re all in this together.

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 4:03PM) : Paul Allison- What does a Pedagogy of Care look like? more

For example, when a group starts online, teachers don’t jump right into content; better to spend some times getting students to talk with each other, maybe play a game…

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(Mar 13 2020 4:06PM) : Terry Elliott-- Start with simple things that show you care about the channel(s) of communication; be aware that some students will have Internet and computer access issues. Important to try to use a good microphone. [Edited]
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(Mar 13 2020 4:14PM) : Kristen Turner-- Instructors have to be careful to keep expectations flexible; even though we started with a set syllabus and maybe already have a final exam; those may not be completely doable in current environment. [Edited] more
1. Recognize that schools vary widely in capabilities (some may do online learning, others may resort to mailing paper packets a la summer vacation). 2. There are implications for mandated testing.

So keep expectations flexible. If technology fails, we’ll be OK, can try again next time.

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(Mar 13 2020 4:19PM) : Chris Sloan-- Higher Ed and secondary schools may be fairly able to handle this, what about K-5? What might work for them? Very tough... [Edited]
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 4:26PM) : Dave Cormier-- Unsupervised K-5 students aren't facing an educational crisis; just make sure they're as comfortable and happy and well-fed as possible (no longer have school as their "Day Orphanage") and don't push onto Internet unmonitored. more

So many ways supervised Internet use could go wrong (even aside from stalkers and the like, i.e. YouTube videos aimed at those ages tend to be bad for brain development).

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 4:34PM) : Troy Hicks-- trying puzzle through the concrete challenges of (for example) time management: how to use time in most productive ways. more

Example: a traditional college art drawing class might meet for 3 hours and each student only gets 5 minutes of 1:1 direct teacher feedback; with creative use of online tools could probably improve on that (e.g. use Zoom to arrange higher percentage of 1:1 time + some intense small group interaction time).

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(Mar 13 2020 4:40PM) : Paul Allison-- how do we communicate such tips to instructors over the next x days?
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 4:41PM) : Troy Hicks-- he appreciates efforts to gather short-term tips and best practices, but he's more interested in shifting conversation to rethinking education very broadly (whether online or face-to-face).
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 4:45PM) : Dave Cormier-- understood, but these are questions people in this conversation have been grappling with for 10-20 years; people who are terrified of the next few days not receptive to hearing it. more

Dave has long argued that can’t really measure education, but not going there now!

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(Mar 13 2020 6:24PM) : Jeff Dierking-- we're the vanguard of willing online learners, but a million unwilling learners are about to join in, and their approaches may not match our "good practices". And.. how to provide good small group social learning experiences online??
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 6:39PM) : Dave Cormier-- His first tip is to spend 15 quiet minutes thinking about the first 3 minutes of the beginning of a face-to-face class; how do you make students feel comfortable (say hello, smile, etc.)and thereby earn their buy-in to the social contract. more

And then figure out how to translate that to the online environment!!

Nefarious aspect— many teachers haven’t thought about those things for their physical classrooms, so the new online situation is an opportunity for consciousness raising (Pedagogy of Care territory).

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 6:29PM) : Kristen Turner-- returning to her previous point of keeping focus on the student experience vs. what teacher. Decide on student learning goals (eg. talk to teacher, talk to other students, interact with content) and then choose tools accordingly. more

Can be as simple as use of Zoom or Facetime.

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 6:43PM) : Jeff Dierking-- moving to online gives teachers a chance to reevaluate what they need to communicate to students and why; in his experience, much of the curricular material he used to teach can be pared down!
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 6:46PM) : Paul Allison-- synchronous for interacting with people and asynchronous for interacting with content; is it really that simple?
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(Mar 13 2020 10:14PM) : Kristen Turner-- It's partially a matter of being smart about how you use your time; it may be preferable to use your time with students for interacting with them and letting them watch you deliver your recorded lecture at another time. more

Teachers new to online can start out by doing their lectures as before and then over time, as they get comfortable, try out other approaches.

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 8:14PM) : Jeff Dierking-- very liberating when you as teacher can record the lecture one time and not have to keep using your time repeating it, and also gives kids control over when they want to watch... good for both parties!
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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 10:19PM) : Paul Allison-- how do these sudden shifts from traditional classroom to online change the power dynamics between teachers and administration (and between students and teachers)? more

Some of the memos from Administrators tell teachers to learn whole new approaches, platforms, and tools in a matter of days, without any concrete support for such an ambitious demand; does this cede power to teachers, or is it just an example of dumping problems on teachers with out any high-level responsibility?

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 10:24PM) : Terry Elliott-- passive aggressive message that it would be smart to have contingency plans to move from face-to-face to online only; how fair is it to ask teachers to do free work (on top of everything else) to make that happen. [Edited] more

There was already grievances at my university about lack of money and raises, this adds to it. We’ll do it, but it shouldn’t be seen as something to be expected in the normal course of things, as normal good will.

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(Mar 13 2020 10:30PM) : Dave Cormier-- The administrative aspects of closing campuses are really ugly. more

For example: (1) thousands of exams are going to be shifted on very short notice from paper to digital; they won’t be proctored normally, and some will get done wrong… students will challenge the results, and (2) what happens to students (especially foreign students) who are forced from dorms without necessarily having any good place to go.

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(Mar 13 2020 10:39PM) : Anna Maine, Berkeley High School (Berkeley, CA)-- They don't want to close schools until they have to because of all the disruptions (and kids seem to be more resistant). Faculty members are wondering about what resources we'll be able to use. more

University students are presumed to have access to the Internet and modern tools, but you can’t make that assumption about secondary school students. Many of my kids can’t run Zoom; it’s hard enough to get them to use Google Classroom.

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(Mar 13 2020 10:42PM) : Chris Sloan-- I've wondered about restructuring the traditional scheduling; rather than the teacher having a set block of time, let the students have the opportunity to schedule an appointment. Would be an interesting shift.
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(Mar 13 2020 10:45PM) : Jeff Dierking-- It's powerful to get teachers to actually think about how much time per week they need to spend with each student; there are multiple ways it can be done other than lecturing to all of them at once!
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(Mar 13 2020 10:51PM) : Chris Sloan-- Reminds me of a former student who expressed who strongly he wished he could control how much time he had for different classes each week; some he could knock out in just a few hours, others he needed more time.
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(Mar 13 2020 10:53PM) : Anne Maine-- one of her students just wasn't cut out for the traditional long school day but was really excited about having agency over how he allocated time to different classes; empowering to be able to skip math today and then do double the next day.
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(Mar 13 2020 10:58PM) : Jeff Dierking-- The old observation by [John] Dewey that it's unnatural to stop doing something you're enjoying and in the middle of because a school bell rings! more

New teachers going online will find out for themselves that, if they have trust in kids, those kids will want to do school and learn things.

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 11:03PM) : Terry Elliott-- to me, this conversation tonight is about the shift online is a stress test of our educational system that's revealing all its cracks, blind spots, and assumptions. We have to take advantage of this opportunity to observe them and learn!! more

Hopefully this will give us the opportunity to bring back progressive educators.

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 11:05PM) : Paul Allison-- importance of identifying and tracking key aspects, like students' perceived agency over their time.
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(Mar 13 2020 11:11PM) : Dave Cormier-- I agree with Terry, there is an opportunity here. 2012 was maybe a similar but smaller situation with MOOCs, where online high ed educators were interesting. We didn’t handle ourselves well. more

Online learning is just learning, humans getting together to share the things they know. I will try to do better this time, remembering the above (and people being uncomfortable with uncertainty).

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Dan Doernberg

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(Mar 13 2020 11:19PM) : Troy Hicks-- Bad face-to-face teaching is even worse when put online; my hope is that our conversations about going online will get our colleagues thinking about and incrementally improving their instructional practices in general. more

This is an opportunity, I hope we don’t let it go by.

Has your school or university shut down yet? Are your classes going online?

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For some time now, many of us have been exploring the affordances and the hurdles of using online tools for learning.

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What do you know that might help your colleagues who are asking what it means to take their classes online?

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Let's meet tonight, Wednesday, March 11th at 9E/8C/7M/6P in an open-ended conversation about teaching and learning online -- especially now in the midst of this pandemic. Here's where to jump into our Zoom meeting: https://zoom.us/j/981788738

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You can also find the live stream of our conversation and annotate it while watching with others at https://teachersteachingteachers.org

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This is a time to access the power of teachers teaching teachers. Let's learn how to mitigate these disruptions together!

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DMU Timestamp: March 12, 2020 00:41

Added March 12, 2020 at 7:18am by Paul Allison
Title: Chat Transcript from Zoom (simultaneous with the video stream)

21:08:35

From Jeff Dierking : Hi, all. I may be in and out. So I might disappear a few times. Middle schooler needing to be provoked into doing homework.
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21:08:59

From Kristen Turner : Those darn middle schoolers. :)
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21:09:09

From dave cormier : I totally get that.
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21:10:02

From Kristen Turner : I wrote this last night: https://twinlifehavingitall.blogspot.com/2020/03/and-i-feelfine.html
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21:10:08

From dave cormier : true story
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21:10:25

From dannewdoernberg : Typical Canadian….
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21:12:00

From Jeff Dierking : Troy has incredible body control. He hasn’t moved yet! ;)
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21:12:23

From Kristen Turner : People watching this are wondering why I’m laughing
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21:12:38

From Kristen Turner : I need to work on my poker face
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21:15:13

From dave cormier : and the vendors that are circling
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21:16:22

From dave cormier : bud hunt has spoken passionately about how schools are often the only place some kids get good food
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21:17:21

From dave cormier : http://oliah.ca is where i’m trying to do this
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21:23:20

From Terry Elliott : I would not recommend much new pedagogy right now.
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21:23:58

From dave cormier : 2 decades i realized this morning
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21:26:51

From Jeff Dierking : I won that round.
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21:27:08

From Kristen Turner : Congrats!
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21:27:14

From Terry Elliott : Here’s a piece of caring advice I got today: “Stay in contact with students, and stay transparent. Talk to them about WHY you're prioritizing certain things or asking them to read or do certain things. I've moved to doing that in all of my face-to-face teaching anyway, and it improves student buy-in because they know content and delivery are purposeful.”
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21:27:34

From dave cormier : that’s great advice. who did it come from?
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21:28:47

From Terry Elliott : A colleague on our department’s Facebook page.
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21:33:37

From dave cormier : Hi Terry :)
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21:34:07

From Terry Elliott : Another piece of advice gleaned from our faculty: “Prioritize. What do students REALLY NEED TO KNOW for two weeks? The rest of the semester? This one is hard for me. But we have to strip it all the way down--in my campaigns class, that means I need them to post infographics on their research and now post narrative context and slides. But I'm going to punt on presentations because we just don't have time. Which sucks. But these are not normal circumstances.”
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21:34:12

From Terry Elliott : Hi dave
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21:37:11

From dave cormier : right.
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21:37:23

From dave cormier : WHAT? NO ATTENDANCE?
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21:37:59

From Terry Elliott : I here you on the social learning aspects, Jeff.
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21:38:18

From Terry Elliott : Everybody is mediocre online.
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21:39:15

From dave cormier : Note i said “i shouldn’t be going off on my own soapbox” and then proceeded to get on my soapbox
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21:39:58

From Jeff Dierking : I’m just following your example. I’m new here.
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21:40:02

From dave cormier : lol
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21:43:38

From dave cormier : Stop being mean to Jimmy Jeff.
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21:44:08

From Terry Elliott : Exactly, Jeff, prioritize
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21:45:42

From Terry Elliott : You can always start with chat instead of video.
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21:49:15

From Jeff Dierking : You will probably want to figure out how to build a life boat as we get closer to the iceberg.
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21:49:29

From Troy Hicks : sorry all. I’ve missed the past ten minutes or so. will try to catch up
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21:50:44

From Troy Hicks : but, here is the point... why are we still giving exams?
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21:50:56

From Jeff Dierking : Thinking the same thing.
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21:51:00

From Troy Hicks : this is the kind of reimagining that we could do
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21:51:02

From Troy Hicks : now
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21:51:21

From Troy Hicks : this is the moment to make the changes we’ve been talking about for 100 years
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21:51:33

From Troy Hicks : Dewey would want us to do it
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21:52:06

From Jeff Dierking : You’re speaking my language.
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21:52:13

From Kristen Turner : I hope so, Troy.
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21:52:38

From dave cormier : They are a lower risk group… but they are excellent carriers of the virus.
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21:52:44

From Troy Hicks : I hope so too. this is our Rahm Emanuel style “good crisis” that we can’t let go to waste.
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21:52:44

From dave cormier : the NBA just shut down
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21:52:45

From Kristen Turner : I asked the exam question (silently) in our faculty meeting yesterday when it came up
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21:52:49

From Jeff Dierking : I saw that.
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21:53:01

From Kristen Turner : Also no travel from Europe
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21:53:04

From Troy Hicks : I don’t want to spend three weeks talking about how to install and use lockdown browsers.
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21:53:12

From dave cormier : @troy tell me about it
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21:53:20

From Troy Hicks : I want people to talk about high quality teaching and learning.
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21:53:36

From Jeff Dierking : So all that is about testing security, right?
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21:53:47

From Troy Hicks : I want to talk about how those MEd students could demonstrate their learning in a virtual simulation.
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21:53:47

From dave cormier : We’ve been poring over our institutional policies looking at what we’re actually allowed to do
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21:53:54

From Jeff Dierking : That’s what creates the administrative problem, right?
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21:54:07

From dave cormier : we have millions of students who have a contract that says they are going to be tested in a particular way
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21:54:13

From dave cormier : we aren’t even allowed to change that
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21:54:14

From dannewdoernberg : NowComment (and maybe other tools) has an easy solution to the exam issue… hiding comments, so teachers can post test and all students make comments at the same time but can’t see each others’ answers.
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21:54:21

From dave cormier : we could spend the next 10 years in court
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21:54:25

From Troy Hicks : or how writing students can meet in small groups — or individually — with their teachers, not do stupid grammar drills.
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21:54:30

From Jeff Dierking : This would be a good opportunity to try and tip an administrator over into more project-based evaluations…or portfolios...
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21:54:44

From dave cormier : @jeff yes. Except that has to go through senate
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21:54:52

From Jeff Dierking : That’s horrifying.
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21:55:04

From Troy Hicks : https://hickstro.org/2020/03/08/on-covid-19-and-the-moving-of-courses-from-campus-to-cloud/
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21:55:12

From Troy Hicks : yes, chris
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21:55:30

From Troy Hicks : https://youcanbook.me/
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21:55:34

From Troy Hicks : doodle polls
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21:55:45

From Troy Hicks : set up times to meet and work together
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21:55:55

From Troy Hicks : exactly. this is what I was trying to say
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21:56:23

From Troy Hicks : right. and how many of those 45 minutes are wasted?
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21:56:42

From Troy Hicks : it’s like nested Russian dolls. how many actual minutes do we need to teach?
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21:56:55

From Kristen Turner : Student agency, what???? :)
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21:57:15

From Troy Hicks : we can teach the mini lesson as a whole class, then break into smaller groups/appointments
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21:57:39

From Troy Hicks : students recording screencasts demo ing their own
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21:57:39

From Kristen Turner : As it should be in face to face settings too
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21:58:12

From Troy Hicks : I was talking with a math teacher today about having her kids record screencasts of them solving equations with geogebra
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21:58:24

From Troy Hicks : rather than taking a quiz
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21:58:28

From Troy Hicks : so
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21:58:30

From Troy Hicks : many
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21:58:33

From Troy Hicks : possibilities
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21:58:47

From Troy Hicks : right — this is the revaltory moment
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22:02:24

From Terry Elliott : super conversation
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22:02:38

From Jeff Dierking : The homework is done!
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DMU Timestamp: March 12, 2020 00:41

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