When | Why |
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Nov-02-20 | 2 November 2020 |
Added November 02, 2020 at 2:55pm
by Paul Hankins
Title: 2 November 2020
Reading in the Dark/Directing Comments/Commentary
When commenting on the film, think about memorable lines. Try to capture these in a comment.
Post any questions you may have of the film.
Remember our frontloading of this film, but what scenes and situations might we problematize?
Think about thematic threads through the film:
Political Social Economic Psychological Religious
Domestic Gender Class Interpersonal/Intimacy
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I would say it moves the audience toward the awareness of disabilities and how we go day by day taking our life for granted.
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I agree with you completely. Before watching this film I never really thought about people with disabilities having to live this fast pace life we live. Each day for them can be extremely challenging. I take for granted how blessed I am to be able to live my life without the challenges disabled people face. Now since the film brought light to their situations I will be more thankful for how blessed I am.
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I agree Zach. During this whole 2 or 3 weeks that we have been looking into this field, it has enlightened me to not take any day for granted and realize how lucky I am. I think the people who made the movie did their job on raising awareness on this subject
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I agree Zach. The more we have touched on this topic I have realized I don’t know as much about disabled people as I thought. This film allowed me to get an even better insight on people with disabilities and how they act day to day. I, myself, realized that I take simple things for granted.
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I agree with your thoughts Zach. The characters’ lives and effect on Jack’s life show us how difficult living with a disability is, and why we should be grateful for the normal lives we get to live everyday.
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I agree with Zach, when I saw first guy with disabilities it kind of made me smile. I don’t see too many movies with an actor that
has disabilities in the movie, especially a movie that seems to be focusing on disabilities. The movie did open up my eyes on people with disabilities, just because you kind of see him on a day to day basis and I personal do not have someone around me that has those disabilities.
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I agree with you, Trey. Unlike many movies, the characters in this one are introduced at the very beginning. I believe they did this in order for the audience know these characters n an almost personal level by the end of the movie. I know that by the end of the movie I felt as if I knew each character personally.
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Although the aren’t independent, these people work hard and are functioning members of society. I found that this was a realistic and honorable take on how people with disabilities function in society..
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I too have learned so much about people with disabilities from this film. They function within society to the best of their ability, putting forth their best contribution possible. Not only are they a huge contribution to society they are some of the hardest workers out there. Each one of the boys in the film work hard at the task put at hand.
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I’m not always big on 90’s movies, with the seemingly subpar cinematography or the theme usually rammed down your throat, I’ve never really had a fantastic experience with a 90’s film (maybe barring Heathers) However, this movie might be an exception. Don’t get me wrong, it still feels like a PSA, but in the good ways, rather than the bad. The movie sheds light on early-advancement understandings of Neurodivergence in a Neurotypical society. Growing up with the “Back in my day” parents, I always assumed that in this time, they didn’t care about anyone who was om the spectrum. However, we can obviously tell that they did.
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After watching the film, I have learned what life is like for not only the mentally challenged, but how it impacts the social workers working with them. The film allows the audience to see how Jack is struggling to keep a balance between his job and his relationship. It allowed me to take time to be grateful that I do not have any sort of mental illness. Mental illness can put a toll on not only the life of the person living with it, but also the life of the people putting in effort to make sure they can live a safe life.
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Arnold is unable to process his emotions of sadness as he realizes Jack is truly leaving and he is losing his friend. Jack understands Arnold’s response and remains calm, letting Arnold sort himself out and process his feelings .
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This should be at 1:31:54
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I believe that the film is heavily centered around Jack and his relationship with the men. This aspect of the film presents an intimacy theme on the way those with disabilities view the people in their lives. These relationships often take a toll on the people that care for those with disabilities. Jack puts it best when him and his wife are having a meeting with the marriage counselor and his wife suggests that he feels guilty about having to take care of himself. His job is a difficult one and many people do not consider this. He says slightly angry about his wife’s proposition “They do deserve better, I deserve better, somebody deserves better.”
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What does the longer opening sequence allow to happen for the characters on the screen and for the viewer? What seems to be happening in the opening sequences of the film?
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By having a longer introduction to the characters the viewers are getting a better understanding of who is who. At the start of the film it looks like they are getting ready for a dance or a show.
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At the beginning of the film, we see our characters preparing for a celebration or event of some kind, as Zachary pointed out. The opening scene allows the audience to take in the characters and try to assume their personalities little too. This way, we can attach the names to faces to archetypes.
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At the beginning the story introduces the characters, so we can understand the problems of the characters, and to know what the charters are dealing with mentally.
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The beginning of this movie showcased the real situation without sugarcoating the bad. Such as the neighbor calling them the hated “R” word or showing the characters and how they act. This puts a perspective on what it is like to deal with someone with a mental disability day-to-day.
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The opening sequence introduces the audience to characters. They’re preparing for a dance.
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The longer introduction at the beginning of the film allows for the audience to get a better understanding of the characters they are about to watch. The audience is allowed to see how the characters act and see some of their personalities come through before the film begins.
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I personally do not understand the title of the movie because the one neighbor that shows up only shows up twice. The neighbors are not an important character either. She shows that her and her husband are very insensitive towards people with disabilities. The story does not develop the neighbors any more than that. Overall I think the title could be different.
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the title really does not make sense when you watch the movie. The only reason I think that they named the film this is that maybe everyone in the neighborhood consider these boys to be next door neighbors. It is clear that everyone who lives around that area knows these guys so maybe they like them enough that they call them next door neighbors
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I think the title “The Boys Next Door” is not referring to how the neighbors see them, but rather who they are. The movie gives us a glimpse into the lives of these quote unquote, boys next door. I think the title is also a subconscious way of pointing out that they are normal, too, and just like us. They’re just boys that live next door, that’s all. Too often people treat mentally disabled people as if they are not people. I think that by using the title “The Boys Next Door”, the author/director is telling us they, too are regular people who just happen to live next door.
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I also believe that the title is not based on the fact that they are neighbors with the couple that moved next door. I believe that the title is showing the audience that these men with mental disabilities are human just like you and me. They are not to be seen as just those “retarded” boys, they are to be seen as just the boys next door.
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I believe that the title may refer to how they should be viewed like any ordinary boys that live next door and should be treated normal just like anyone else
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You might recognize Nathan Lane as the voice of Timone from THE LION KING.
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Something noticeable about Norman is that he repeats phrases about donuts and he commonly says, “Hello, my name is Norman Bulansky, welcome to my home.”
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I’ve always found it interesting that while many might write off the Norman character as “simple,” he does seem to have a keen awareness of civility and hospitality. He welcomes, offers food and drink, and makes people feel like they can be in the house.
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Nathan Lane (the actor of Norman Bulanski) played Pepper Saltzman in Modern Family!
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I alway think I am so good at recognizing celebrity voices for animations, but I have come to realize I am not as good at this as I thought. Once I find out whose voice plays who in different shows and films, I can hear it but usually not before someone explicitly tells me.
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I am the opposite of Karisten.I have no clue who is who. actors and actress are so hard for me to remember for some reason. Even when people tell me who they are I still do not have a clue.
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I like Zach find it difficult to memorize all actors and actresses names and voices
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Robert Sean Leonard is an actor you might recognize from the television series, HOUSE.
In this film, Robert portrays Barry Klemper, a somewhat reclusive young man with Schizophrenia. He works part-time as a golf pro and serves as a sort of guide for the other boys.
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You might recognize Goldwyn as the “bad friend” in the 80s film, GHOST.
Most recently, he has been in the television drama, SCANDAL.
In THE BOYS NEXT DOOR, Jack has dueling responsibilities as a caregiver and as a husband. His wife, Reena Palmer also works in social services as a child advocate.
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This is Beatrice’s Dad form Divergent as well! He looked so familiar as soon as I saw him, I had to look him up. He looks so young here.
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Jeter was a celebrated character actor you may have seen in films like THE GREEN MILE or PATCH ADAMS. You may also have seen him on Sesame Street as “Mr. Noodle.”
In the film, Arnold is a man with manic depression who is given to plans and equity of work about the house. He is very interested in Russia.
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I recognize Michael Jeter from the film “Patch Adams.” In this particular movie Michael is featured as a patient, named Rudy, in the facility alongside Patch. Rudy is even the reason for Patch’s nickname. His roles in “Patch Adams” and “The Boys Next Door” are remarkable as he gives insight on what a person with disabilities can experience.
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One of the better performances in the film, you would hardly recognize Vance from his number of film and television roles (which makes for a very compelling scene later in the film).
Deeply dedicated to his study of “agriculture” and deeply devoted to his roommates who he looks up to. . .
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I noted that he had to have the agriculture books in order by year… Otherwise it just doesn’t make sense. He cares about the little things, and has almost an obsession with certain topics. That’s one thing that I noticed about him.
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Our character seems to be given to the simple things like Spiderman and animals. Watch him respond to the idea of “being born in a barn” and whether or not Jack has “horses.”
An important point here is that idioms and figurative language is lost on this character, an idea he expounds upon later in his monologue.
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Lucien’s obsession with order shows that he could possibly have a disorder in which he loves organization. Later in the film he states that he is “mystified” with common things like books and faucets. He also talks about how his room is always clean.
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Could it be when the rest of the world feels so “disordered” that he has found a collection that he keeps and curates and keeps in a set. Interesting that this set is aligned, too, to agriculture.
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We learn of Lucien’s “mystifications” from the monologue he offers to the State “Snack.”
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As a response to “Monologue (later in the film)” I would note that our hungry character quite literally always has food or some kind of snack. Like on the porch when the letter is received, or at the party when he consoles his nervous friend about his father coming to town. He offers communion by sharing his food, this is note worthy because he doesn’t share his snacks often. I’m not sure why they always portray his character eating. Just food for thought..
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What is the singular obsession of the Winnie the Pooh archetype? What is the mission of the day most days?
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Winningham brings one of our four principal parts for women in a play/film featuring boys and men. Winningham is a celebrated American actress who demonstrates her gifts and talents as a woman with a learning disability.
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One could infer Sheila(Mare Winningham) is a possible love interest for Norman Bulansky, as he prepares her a snack and hands her flowers during the introduction scene.
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In the language of archetypes, Sheila may be Norman’s idea of the “Platonic Ideal.” This archetype presents as a character who might be seen from outside as a potential partner but seen from within the story as a sort of trusted friendship.
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One could as infer that Shelia only wants one thing from Norman, while he wants a life long friendship. Her excessive need to see his keys and run is comedic but also shows that maybe that was all that she was looking for.
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Do you see what the opening sequence is allowing and inviting the director and the viewer to do together? How does this help to better appreciate what the principal actors are doing within this scene?
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I think this first scene allows us to appreciate where the characters are at, developmentally. This invites us to better analyze them later. We are able to better appreciate the principal actors this way because we are not distracted by action from the plot.
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i agree! i think it causes us to focus our attention and sort of “get attached” to them more emotionally and personally and not as someone with just a disability we think is weird, but in a more humane way of enjoying the character!
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Although the characters make the actors, the actors also make the characters. The actors present on the screen how they imagine their characters to act like. In this opening scene, the audience is introduced into the actors take on the writers character. The principal actors are showing their insights on the character, while allowing the viewer to connect the character to the actor. The director gets to show off his ability to choose actors that understand the material, and the character presented to them.
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The actors that were chosen for this film fit each persona very well. The introduction to the characters helps us have a better understanding of the plot that is later presented to us in the film. The actors portrayed their characters in a way of how they imagined they would act in real life. The director chose these actors based on their ability to present these characters. This helps us have a better understanding of the plot because the actors portrayed their characters personalities in a way to help viewers understand the plot in a better way by showing us the specific personality traits of each character. The opening scene shows us some of the important characteristics of each character being Norman and his doughnuts along with the others.
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I also, like Kinsey, feel like these actors did a great job of portraying these characters. The way that they fit into theses characters gives another level of understanding to the movie.
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In the opening scene, we see Jack Palmer (our main character) interacting with his supervisor, Mrs. Tracy. The conversation seems to revolve around a community softball game that pits one department against another.
What is the arguable purpose of this scene at the beginning of the film?
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The purpose of this scene is it allows for a brief introduction of the main character Jack Palmer. It allows us to see into his life story and what is going on before we get deeper into the film.
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Yes. This is probably the sole purpose of the scene. Note, too, that this makes us aware that our main character, Jack Palmer, has a boss. Someone in charge of him and his work. Someone who corrects him in his responses to her suggestions.
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This may be a stretch, but a couple scenes past this one, we see our character, Jack, correcting Mrs. Warren at 6:38 when she describes the type of “people” who are the neighbors. Jack is taking what he learns from his higher power, Mrs. Tracy, and using it to his advantage.
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The beginning of the film is important because it is where the audience gets a since of what the film is really about. It is important we got to see what life was like for Jack before we deeper into his life and what all is going on.
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The scene’s purpose is to introduce Jack to the audience.
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While saying “Rena and I may go somewhere, we haven’t done that in a while,” gives us insight on his relationship with his wife. Even he knows how little time he and Rena spend together. This phrase ties into the future conversation with Rena and Jack when Jack forgets his birthday and Rena mentions he’s been distant.
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This an example of foreshadowing. As Flora stated, this scene ties into the issues with their marital relationship. The notion that Jack and Rena need to spend more time together is furthered throughout the entire film. This is an example of an underlying theme or plot, as the main reason Jack needs to get a new job is that h is not allowing enough time for himself, as well as taking care of his wife. They go to marriage counseling and discuss the need for him to be there for her and discuss his issues. Then, as the plot plays out, Jack finally chooses to switch jobs, and he then collapses into Rena’s arms, as he is finally “with” her again.
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Many of my peers have touched on the introduction of the characters, though I wanted to take a slightly different approach to such. As Ms. Tracy begins to “get their names straight,” Jack provides insight on each character. I find this to be an especially interesting decision by the director, because as a supervisor, Ms. Tracy has most likely went over these boys before. That being said, the choice by the director allows the audience to be introduced to the main characters through dialogue within the film. By employing dialogue to introduce each character, the audience is easily able to identify each character correctly. Again, Ms. Tracy may not have needed all of the information, as she has plenty of paperwork as a supervisor, yet the director chooses to use this moment to introduce the characters before they even appear.
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Mark compares Barry’s disability as the Hindenburg disaster of 1937 “coming in for a fast landing.” For Norman, Arnold, and Lucien, however, Mark compares them to “fender bender.” The Hindenburg disaster caused 35 fatalities, while fender benders are just minor collisions. Comparing the two shows just how extreme schizophrenia can be. Much like the Hindenburg explosion, an episode of schizophrenia can happen randomly and feel as if one’s being engulfed in flames.
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I feel as if the comparison is giving the reader a sense of understanding. It is illustrating the idea that all disabilities are not equal, they each have their own struggles at different severities.
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This comparison also alludes to the Hindenburg explosion, it is not just a metaphorical employment in the movie. The metaphor makes sense to the audience as long as they are aware of the history and severity of the accident which, as Flora stated, caused 35 fatalities.
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The idea that Barry is more destructive than Norman, Arnold and Lucien shows that Barry’s situation is more explosive and doesn’t happen as much. The other men are more common, they are usually always the way they are, yet this describes the fiery tendency that Barry has.
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He has only just met Mrs. Tracy and he is already relating to her everything that has happened at the grocery that day. It seems to set the “boys” experience as separate from those who live outside of the house.
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Although Jack Palmer just said that the “boys” get nervous around new people, Arnold comes out of the door excited and nervous to tell someone about his trip to the grocery store. I don’t think he cared who, it was just that someone was listening. For just meeting Mrs. Tracy, he seems to be pretty comfortable with talking to her because he knows that she is “Jack’s friend” and she is calming him down. He then holds off on telling her another piece of information, saying, “We’re not gonna tell her before we tell Jack”.
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So, as a “sounding board” for the concern of the day, Mrs. Tracy fills the bill. But, she is not part of the trust circle of the bigger happenings. Interesting. The “boys” would not see Mrs. Tracey as anyone of a title or an official capacity. She is Jack’s “friend” and, by degree, she is “friendly.” But, not to be trusted with information like selling the house before Jack is told.
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At this time in the film, Jack goes over to introduce himself to the new neighbors who are moving in next door to where Arnold, Norman, and Lucien live. He then explains their “situation” and the lady next door, who is ironically named Karen, mentions how her husband is “a traditional kind of a man” and would not be happy living next to “retarded” people. Jack attempts to tell Mrs. Warren that the word “retarded” is not an acceptable way to “label” the boys next door. Mrs. Warren then tells Jack that she is “the rebel in the family” because she is the only one that “really gets” The Three Stooges. This whole section of the movie implies that those who have a mental disability are not really accepted as a part of society. Labeling people using the word “retarded” and others similar to it, is not socially acceptable and should not be called something different because of a disability. People need to be more educated on how to “treat” those that are mentally disabled. Since this film has been released, the public has been better at “labeling” the mentally disabled, but there is still a lot to fix.
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the word “retarded” should never be used to label someone especially in the case of the boys. The boys are still humans and should be treated as much. In fact the fact that the boys can all work and can live in a house for the most part by themselves shows that they are far from retarded.
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“He’s a traditional kind of man and I don’t think he would be too happy living next door to retarded people.” As she states this, I immediately noticed how she labeled these men without even getting a chance to talk to them. This in turn reminds me of the article we read a couple of weeks ago called “Defying Definition” by Shuan David Hutchinson. In this article the author shares his experience with his own disability and how he has dealt with people labeling him and putting him into a separate box and not treating him with normalcy.
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Anna, it seems as if the further back in history you look, the more that this lack of willingness of change and compassion is prominent. This new trend of compassion and open-mindedness seems to be a new found trait as even going one generation back to our parents generation, there are many examples of oppression towards the LGBTQ community, minorities, etc. Because of this the question could be raised on whether compassion is an evolutionary trait or not.
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At the beginning of the film, she introduces herself as “Joan” Warren. Watch for a name change that seems more than appropriate by the middle of the film.
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How does this scene help to illuminate our reading from the past two weeks? You might not know this but even the closed captioning offered for the film edits the word, “retarded.”
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Over the past two weeks we have been able to read within our weekly work people who have disabilities. Just like in this film we see these at hand. This film is relating back to our work and playing hand in hand with the experiences we have saw in text. It allows us to take note of the disability that is displayed in this film. Like Mr. Hankins said in the captioning that specific word is blurred out. But shouldn’t it be called something else since people with this disability might take offense to it? Or should it be normally said since it is considered a disability? What are your opinions behind this?
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When I first watched this I had to go back ad watch again. The woman states, “Burt’s a traditional kind of man, and I just don’t know how he is going to feel about living next door to retarded people”. Jack kind go makes a comment like did you just say that, and she goes on to call herself a rebel. After studying and reading about disabilities and people who live with disabilities, it puts a new meaning on this word. The word should not be used to describe a person. it is hurtful to the person and they may take offense to that. however, what could be put in place of this word to make it “correct” to say about a person?
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Living next door to people who may have special needs and be potentially disruptive to our comfortable lives (see…no better). Jack is providing a courtesy call here as there may be different guest, visitors, medical professionals. There may be emergency calls. There may be sounds of distress and amplified voices. These are all things that are nice to tell the Warrens in advance, but even I believe that Jack imposes upon the boys’ privacy a bit to share this much narrative about them.
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The woman does not stop at using the word “retarded”, but rather goes on to say she “understands the Three Stooges.” After openly disrespecting her new neighbors, whether she realizes this or not, she disrespects them again by comparing them to the Three Stooges. This scene could potentially set up conflict for the rest of the movie.
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Yes. What IS her deeper appreciation of The Three Stooges. I would love to have this conversation with Mrs. Warren as I have never been able to crack this case (wink). I thought this show to be simple, slapstick comedy. I wonder if her comment is aligned to the light-hearted presentation of the film. Or the “Three Stooges” feel of the “rat” scene wherein the characters are scrambling and falling and exaggerating their problem with the rat.
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By simply hearing Mrs. Warren’s remarks about the boys, her feelings about the lives they live are extremely clear. By calling them “retarded,” and subsequently comparing them to the “Three Stooges,” it is clear that she does not believe they have the abilities to live their lives just as she lives hers. She is putting labels upon them, which is extremely limiting, more so than the actual disability itself. Why do we, as society, continue to label others simply because they are born different than we are?
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This scene helps to illuminate exactly what not to do when presented with this situation. For the past two weeks, we have been reading about people with disabilities and how they are and should be treated just like everyone else, with a few exceptions. They are humans and deserve respect, not to be looked down upon just because of something they cannot control. This scene is shows that not everyone knows or cares about how to treat people with disabilities. The disrespect that the woman has clearly shows that she thinks she is better than the “boys” just because if their disabilities. Jack takes the time and the courtesy to walk over there and try to explain to her and she, who moved in after they have been living there, says that it might be a problem. She then calls herself a “rebel” and compares them to the Three Stooges. I feel that she has the has views as her husband, she just doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy.
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My view on the new neighbors is that they are very entitled. “He is a traditional kind of man” talking about her husband. What does traditional not match with neighbors with a disability? Then, she goes on to say the “R slur” which should not be said especially referring to people with disabilities. I think the director wrote this into the movie to show the reality of this world. Even though they have not done anything to affect the new neighbors in a negative way, they are debating the house choice due to the boys having disabilities.
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Over the past few weeks, our weekly work has been centered around mental disability. A common theme we saw when consuming the text was that those living with mental disabilities are often labeled by their disability, we saw this when Elyn Saks was labeled as dangerous because of her disability. We see this again in the early part of the film when the Neighbor referred to those with disabilities as “retarded”. To further push on this idea when we were to watch a video produced by Shane and Hannah, we saw that although Shane and Hannah may have had a more difficult time with everyday tasks, it did not limit them when setting goals. This is what we got a glimpse of in the beginning, when talking about his friends Jack Palmer lists all of their occupations. Although living with disabilities, all of his friends are working members of society. Categorizing them as anything less is unjust.
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Reading your comment took me back to our discussion article from last week, “Defying Definition” by Shaun David Hutchinson. Our author constantly spoke about mental disorders and illness not defining people and not allowing others to put us in the box of their values. Similarly to this scene, Mrs. Warren immediately shoves her neighbors in a dark and empty room, which is exactly when Jack unlocks the door to let them out. She presses them in such a way that not only defines limits to their abilities and inabilities, but also uses real life conditions as insults for others.
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Even in our TED Talk from two weeks ago, Daniel Kish, in his TED Talk discussing his blindness, claimed that the “impressions of people who are blind are more limiting than the blindness itself.” Kish has been able to overcome those who limit him with their impressions by using sonar, yet the labels are still difficult for him. When will we start to see that people living with disabilities have just as much potential in their future as we do?
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When I first watched and listened to this scene I was in shock. The word “retard” is not how you describe someone who may not pick u things as fast you or me. Or may have difficulty with certain things. Those people just do things differently than you and I.
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I feel like the movie brought out a brighter inside to people with disabilities because I am not around that environment often. They are people, people who are just trying to live their life just like a normal person. I think i feel not so ‘empathetic,’ but feel more like it would be easier to engage with someone with a disability that made communication more difficult
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By hearing Mrs. Warren’s attitude and specific language when Jake mentions Arnold, Barry, Norman, and Lucien reminds me of Shaun David Hutchinson’s “Defying Definition.” Shaun’s article focuses on defying words not definitions and “that person is not that mental illness.” Just by using that horrid word shows us why Shaun felt a need to write that article, why Elyn Saks never told anyone about her mental illness, why Shane and Hannah produced a video called “Things You Should NEVER Say To A Disabled Person,” the list is endless. Mrs. Warren even tries to justify herself by saying, “I’m really the rebel in the family” Which shows us she knew it was wrong, so why did she say it in the first place?
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Good work here, Flora. You’re already making strong connections to the text sets from this one scene with Mrs. Warren. Again, she gets such a small part of the film (almost even time with the young woman from the grocery) and yet she carries so much comment in this short time. It seems to demonstrate the impact of our words and how much they communicate. Draw upon these for your written response. You’ve demonstrated for your peers how they might do this work.
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When watching this scene, my mind went to “Defying Definition.” Mrs. Warren knew exactly what she was saying and how hurtful it was, but said it anyway. And instead of apologizing and attempting to make up for her words, she chose to use “I’m really the rebel in the family” as a rebuttal, similar to what Flora added previously. But not only was this line her excuse. Before she even defined the boys, she pulled her husband in the conversation and said “he’s a tradition kind of a man.” She knew what she was doing was wrong and hid behind her husband to mask her own flaws. This is an example of what Hutchinson was addressing in “Defying Definition” and why he felt the need to inform his readers.
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During this time in the movie, we are introduced to the new neighbors that will be living next door to “the boys”. As soon as we meet her she is talking about how her husband will not be happy living next to “retarded” people. My first impression on her after she said this was that she was the typical nowadays “Karen”, which I found funny to learn later on that her name was Karen. She then goes on to say that she is the only person in her family that understands THE THREE STOOGES. She is portrayed as a very ignorant and not understanding at all of people with mental disabilities. I think that we can all learn from her that ignorance is bliss, and we need to address that and change peoples thinking on those with special needs, and make them more accepting and understanding of them.
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I agree with Grant here , I feel like the neighbor had a general idea about the disabilities, but not to their extremity.
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This scene is presented to the audience to introduce the guinea pig. After this scene, the audience is familiar with the guinea pig, so when the Boys flush it farther into the movie, the audience understands what the Boys just killed.
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In the film it implies that the man at the grocery store took advantage of Arnold. This makes me think back to the TED talk we analyzed about Daniel Kish. The reason being is because it would be so easy to take advantage of people that have clear disabilities at hand like Daniel Kish who suffers from being blind and having to use sonar navigation to get around. Just like Arnold in this film you can tell by the way he talks that he suffers from a disability. With both of these instances you can encourage someone like this to buy certain things that are not needed or an excess amount of certain things. Therefore you are taking advantage of people who clearly have a disability. Rather than asking and questioning what they need and how much they need. Or even helping them out with certain tasks. Would you help out a person in need who has a disability or would you be the person that takes advantage of them?
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I completely agree. I noticed that he got taken advantage of when Arnold said “I asked the guy at. the store.” They just wanted to promote their products and the fact that he could be taken advantage of so easily because he has clear disabilities.
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What does Arnold’s grocery situation say about Arnold? About the business he frequents? How does Jack’s response help to foster independence and accountability in Arnold?
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This situation says that Arnold is trusting in what others say and that he likes to see the good in people. The thought didn’t even cross his mind that they were trying to sell him too many and trying to take advantage of him. This shows that the business that he visits knows that he has a disability and that he will buy what they think is necessary. Jacks response helps to foster the independence in Arnold by helping him think in a different way and not letting people take advantage of him.
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I think Arnold’s grocery situation says that he is easily taken advantage of, as he bought dozens of boxes of wheaties from the store. The people working there probably know who he is because he is there so often. Jack’s response helps Arnold understand that he was taken advantage of though he believes he was given a deal, and he helps Arnold understand he needs to take some of his purchases back to the grocery store.
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This more than likely WOULD be the store that Arnold (and perhaps the others boys would frequent). They would more than likely know Arnold or recognize him and his quirks. This makes the scene a little more insidious for how he is treated.
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I feel like this relates to the comment that I made about him in the grocery store. They probably do go here very frequently which proves my point all the more. If they go here often, and especially if they saw him last time, they should know about his disability and treat him with more care than other. I feel like he was taken advantage of numerous of times in the grocery store. This one may not have known about his disability but he was still taking advantage of because the other workers probably know and failed to say anything. There’s also other people from the town in the grocery store that could have said something to her but they all didn’t they said nothing. He got charged twice for his nine cereal boxes, I never even got a refund. I feel sad for this man because when he looked in his wallet he only had about $3. The signs of his mental disability are so clear I don’t understand how the worker failed to see that.
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In this scene Arnold’s grocery situation goes to show how easily he can be taken advantage of. I feel like the people caught on to his disability and made him think about buying his food in bulk therefor taking advantage of him.
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In the movie it is implied that the grocery store that Arnold does his shopping at has taken advantage of him by making him buy more than he needs.
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Have they?
When responding to the film, we can simply share what we observe. Look what happens when we begin with “It is implied that…” See? We might specify now in revision, “The director seems to suggest that…” Now, instead of reporting out of the film what we have all seen, you begin to move toward something that might look like a SOCIAL theme.
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Shortly after Arnold returns from the store, Jack tells him that they had taken advantage of him by making him buy more than he needed. Arnold responds with “easy for you to say” Jack’s response to his outburst is “have you taken your medication?” This brings me back to one of the articles of the week we had. By bringing up his disability, Jack has reduced Arnold to something less, rendering his argument or side of the conversation invalid. Although I am sure that it was not meant in this respect, from an outsider looking in, it does seem to belittle Arnold.
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I can definitely see where a person in the audience may think that Arnold is being made into somewhat of a fool in this short film. It comes across as a bit odd to ask someone if they had taken their medication on that particular day, which in return makes Arnold look belittled.
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One of the hallmark characteristics of those who believe that they have been “orphaned” and operate out of this sense is to “yell back” at those who are attempting to be helpful.
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Our character, Arnold, displays archetypal orphanage, highlighted in this scene. Jack wants him to do the right thing by taking the food back to the store. Arnold, however, does not understand why all the groceries are as problematic at his caretaker is making them seem. All he knows is that he brought home groceries. Because of his condition, he was victimized by “the system,” as Jack refers to it, and all Arnold was looking for was comfort and security. Because of all this, the yelling became a result. Using this reasoning, we can assume how the yelling came into play. Arnold may have been trying to compensate for Jack’s argument by raising his voice, because although he was trying to be helpful, the archetypal orphan in Arnold came out to protect him from reality. Dr. Carol S. Pearson explains this shadow in his article, “The Twelve Archetypes.”
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More than a comic moment, look for donuts to come up in the film and feature as recurring symbol.
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Norman comes back home from work, which is at a donut shop, with a bump in his shirt. It is obvious to Jack and the audience that there is a box of donuts hidden under his shirt. But, Norman think he has Jack fooled. When Jack points it out, Norman acts very surprised, as if he did not know he put it in there.
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“They’re pretty important in the donut line, Jack.”
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As we know by now, Norman has a ring of keys that he always has with him and seems like he always wants to protect. When we first meet everyone in their house, Jack threatens to take his keys because Norman brought donuts home from work. Norman immediately started panicking and trying to convince Jack not to take them. In another scene when they’re at the dance, Norman wants to dance with Sheila, but is scared to because she always asks for his keys. I think Norman’s keys are a symbol for how caring Norman is even though people would probably see him and quickly think he was aggressive and mean. I think it is a great way of helping us see a hidden personality trait of Norman.
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I think Norman thinks of any ring of keys as something he has to protect and care for.
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Norman thinks that keys are important in the donut line because it allows him access to all the doors. Norman, presumably, believes without his keys, he cannot work. If he cannot work, he will probably disappoint himself, and Jack. This seems to be important to him.
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Blocking is a term used to describe an actor’s presence on the stage. Where do we see Mrs. Tracy in this scene? What does this say of her relationship to Jack? To “the boys?” To the house?
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Mrs. Tracy overlooks the conversation between “the boys” and Jack, from the staircase. She silently and seriously observes how the roommates interact with each other, gauging each person’s tendencies. Mrs. Tracy only intervened when things got too wild, but she was still present on the stage throughout the scene.
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In this scene where Jack is trying to get a hold of all of the boys and find out what is going on, we see Mrs. Tracy standing on the stairs, watching this situation go down. This shows that she just wants to see how Jack handles things and that she trusts that he can resolve this on his own. She doesn’t really know how exactly to interact with all of the boys yet so shes learning from Jack and seeing if it works. Mrs. Tracy inputs herself into the conversation when she sees things are getting out of hand. Maybe Jack is getting a little too comfortable with the boys and letting his temper get the best of him.
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Mrs. Tracy called in for an appointment for marriage counseling. “When you’re here, you’re not here” Mrs. Tracy says because he is constantly thinking or doing something for the boys. He is emotionally unavailable for his wife it seems. His energy all goes towards the boys. His focus is always on the boys. Jack is so consumed that he forgot his own birthday.
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Publisher’s Clearing House. Look this up to get the reference and why Arnold is so excited (and has made a plan to sell the house).
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PCH is a leading direct-to-consumer company offering a unique blend of curated multi-channel, chance to win digital entertainment across a network of web and app-based entertainment properties. The company offers low-stakes daily sweepstakes prizes. There’s no purchase necessary to win, but the odds of winning are small. As we saw in the movie, Arnold is so thrilled and has made a plan about selling the house because he got a winning ticket. So when Jack tells him that he has to have the winning number, he simply replies with that he’s not a gumby. I think Jack told him that because a lot of time it those winning tickets can be scams.
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Watch how “parties” work their way into and through the film. Here is a “surprise party” that was thwarted by the presence of the couple responding to the card that was placed on a bulletin board? What does this say of the couple’s relationship to the “house?” Or to the “boys” who live here?
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I would like to add to this discussion of the relevance of parties throughout the film. I think the boys see any occasion as a need of celebration. Not to make a general statements, because we do tend to see Barry (especially at Jacks “farewell” party) be a little more realistic, maybe even pessimistic. Its an acknowledge of their achievements and milestones, no matter how big or small.
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“First thing I’m going to do is buy a ticket to Russia.” Throughout this whole film Arnold mentions his desire to go to Russia. Is Neil Sedaka the main reason Arnold wants to go or is it something bigger? Maybe its more of a promise land because it seems as if every time something stressful or bad comes up he tends to mention Russia even at the end when Jake said said he was leaving Arnold, Norman, and Lucien. They all went to a train station to leave and go to Russia, where all their problems might go away.
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Neil Sedaka is a singer-songwriter from the popular culture. Like many other allusions Arnold will make within the film, Sedaka is seemingly under-appreciated by everyone but Arnold.
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Throughout the film we notice many allusions made by Arnold revolving music. Whether it be Tchaikovshy or Sedaka, its clear he has a passion for music. I believe these are subtle metaphors to a much bigger message Arnold is trying to portray. While never stated directly in the film, its apparent he may be diagnosed with O.C.D. The “under-appreciation” of these musical artists could be a representation of how he feels under-appreciated. An example of this would be during one of the scenes with Jack and the boys where Arnold in continuing to beat the rug clean, shortly after, Jack loses his temper. Arnold storms off to his room with the rugs, feeling his action were under-appreciated. I believe the mentions of seemingly under-appreciated musicians is a metaphor for the similar feelings felt by Arnold.
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“It’s not important that I teach, Mrs. Freemus; it’s important that you learn.”
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Berry says this to his student he is teaching at his golf lessons. This line is interesting to me. The way I took this line is learning from your mistakes, in most cases, can be more beneficial than being taught how to do something. Learning what to do, by doing what not to do.
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We can see a conversation back and forth between Jack and Mrs. Tracy discussing what disability Barry has and what his past history is like. I can relate this back to my weekly work when we hear Elyn Saks who also suffers from a form of schizophrenia. They both have their challenges in life. Hearing what Saks had to overcome in her life and what hardships she faced. We can only imagine what Barry is going through in this as well with his situations he was put into. The TED talk we watched in our weekly work gave me a background of what this disease is and what harm it does to someone. I can apply this to the movie and compare it with Barry’s actions. Schizophrenia is a disease you may not know someone has but in this instance we can assume that Barry has something along those lines. Do you know of anyone personally that has suffered from this disease? If so share how it has affected them and you?
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I thought the exact same thing when we found out about Barry’s schizophrenia. Elyn talked from her own personal experiences and I found that to be so brave. The fact that she had the courage to tell about the hardest times in her life illuminated me in that sense. We can apply this to the movie because we see Barry in his normal day-to-day life just like Elyn told us about hers.
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An interesting interaction here between Mrs. Tracy and Jack regarding the boys (particularly Barry) being a sort of “test.”
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As we are about to meet Barry we see a conversation between Mrs. Tracy and Jack. Jack explains that Barry is a schizophrenic and he even says “He’s on the edge of falling off the edge of he world.” But, Jack also says “He copes better than most with his level of illness.” Barry has convinced himself that he is a golf pro and in the next scene is shown giving lessons with a elderly widow named Mrs. Freemus. Jack later says that he set up these lessons for Barry. I have an idea of what Barry could be going through because of the Ted Talk we watched this past week for the weekly work. Elyn Saks talked about her story of a schizophrenic. Does Barry and Elyn show any similarities with their actions or how they go about things?
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I don’t believe that these two shares similarities with how they go about things. Barry is making up a lie that he made himself believe through golf and Elyn just told us her story how it was.
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Another principal female is introduced here in Mrs. Freemus (she is a widow lady Jack has set up to take lessons from Barry). Note that the relationship was orchestrated by Jack from outside of the home. The relationship manifests on the golf course. This character lends to a deeper appreciation of the film’s seeming subtext, but I have said too much already.
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This feature character interacts with Barry but not the rest of the “boys” in the house. She lives outside of the arrangement, but is connected on this level as a student of Barry’s (which she seems to be doing as a favor because Barry is a “nice boy”). Watch the Mrs. Freemus character. She will be illuminated by your appreciation of archetypes.
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I feel as if Mrs. Freemus completely embodies the Caregiver archetype. A Caregiver’s goal is to help others. They may also be guilty of manipulation. In the scene just before this one, Jack walks through the golf course with Mrs. Tracy. We learn that Mrs. Freemus is a widow and lives alone. With our character being alone and no one to take care of, it becomes clear why she would agree to take lessons from Barry. Like what Emme said, “He probably identifies himself as a teacher, but with out students, how does he see himself?” Mrs. Freemus chose to take the lessons from Barry as her was to “take care” of him. She wants to do what she can to help boost how he views himself. She could also be assuming the role of the literal caregiver Barry needed as a child, considering the background we have on his father.
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After Mrs. Freemus exits the scene,Barry is baffled. I agree that she could be an archetypal caregiver, in a sense. I feel that when Jack and Mrs. Tracy enter the scene again, Barry is embarrassed because his student just stormed off on him. He responds by saying, “I’m all booked up” after he is introduced to Mrs. Tracy. This seems to be a defense on Barry’s part. He probably identifies himself as a teacher, but with no students, how does he see himself?
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In this scene Barry gives lessons to an old widow about golf. I believe Golf is Barry’s one way to get out of his own thoughts and be more free minded. This also reminds me of “Sonny’s Blues” since Sonny keeps all of his problems and demons bottled up inside and the only way he can relieve these emotions is through music.
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During this scene Barry is seen giving golfing lessons to a character named Mrs. Freemus. Barry thinks that he is a professional golf player. Mrs. Freemus is a widow. Even though in the scene you see her not being able to hit the ball and her saying that he isn’t helping her, she still decides to come back. I think she decides to do this because she wants to help him get out of his mind for a little bit. By doing this I think this makes her an archetypal caregiver because she wants to help him.
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What does this scene bring into focus regarding the “boys” in their micro (home) setting and the larger meso world outside of the house.
By the way, Sally Field is an American actress (she portrayed Forrest Gump’s mother) that Arnold seems to enjoy enough to have asked Jack to have her over to the house).
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In their home the “boys” can be themselves. They don’t have to worry about people looking at them weirdly and making mean comments. When they are outside their house they have to work with people and they made be made fun of because of things that they may do. This beings into focus that some people may find people with mental illnesses weird and not be able to do their jobs. To me this is not fair because they are as capability of doing things that people without mental illnesses can do.
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This interaction between Norman and Arnold demonstrates the complexity of sexuality and intimacy. Norman presents innocently the publication he found at work and is describing it to the disbelieving Arnold.
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When the Mrs. Warren and her family are moving in we learn the son has a pet hamster around 7:20. That small fact may have been forgotten until around 16:26 when Norman seems a “rat” in the apartment that looks a lot like a pet hamster.
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And, does it seem like this is the first time the “boys” have ever encountered a problem like this? It says something about the introduction of something different and threatening. What’s really interesting is the different character responses? The idea that turning off the lights in order to blind the “rat.” To trick the rat into believing no one is home. Are the boys reflecting some of the treatment of which they have been on the receiving end?
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The rat is more than a comic episode within the film. Its presence represents as a common shared threat. Watch the characters’ response to this intrusion. How offers advice and counsel? Who responds?
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Jack offers very simple advice in how to get rid of the rat by saying catch it, kill it, and flush it. Jack was very rushed and short in his response because he was on a call with someone else.
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The scene in transition finds Jack having a conversation with someone regarding Lucian testifying before the Senate and what this would mean. We might assume that this is Mrs. Tracy on the other end of the line.
In Media Res means in the middle. We come into this scene already taking place.
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One of two scenes we get to see in the film of where Jack “lives.” What does this scene illuminate in regard to Jack’s life and how it is going? Is there a report-worthy conflict happening here?
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In this scene, Jack is with his wife in their apartment. His wife, concerned, scheduled an appointment with a marriage counsellor. She says. “When you’re here, you’re not here. Physically, you’re just a memory.” And when she mentions a birthday “being forgotten,” Jack thought it was hers that he missed, not his. He spends life life being devoted to the “boys” and is so involved in caring for them that he doesn’t even think about himself, so much so that his wife thought they it was ripping away at their marriage.
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A phone conversation with Mrs. Tracy reveals a need for Lucien to testify before the state senate addressing a plan to reduce funding for programming for people with disabilities. Here is a question: Why might Mrs. Tracy suggested (or singled out) Lucien over the other “boys” in this situation/opportunity?
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The choice of Lucien to testify before the state senate is clearly deliberate. Since the senate will be addressing the plan to possibly reduce funding for programs for people with disabilities, it might be pertinent to choose Lucien due to the fact he is visibly more “severely” disabled. It shows the program is proving to need the funding in question to continue to benefit those like Lucien.
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What does this scene help to illuminate for the viewer? What was Jack’s original response to the call from Dr. Racine’s office? What is it now?
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This scene illuminates Jack’s intense dedication to the “boys” and how it has affected his marriage with his wife. In the scene, she seems uncomfortable, annoyed, and neglected, even. Jack just thought she had a doctor’s appointment when he got the confirmation call, but it meant far more than just a check-up. Now, Jack must salvage the relationship between his wife while maintaining care for the “boys.”
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This scene helps illuminate how much time Jack really spends with and thinks about “the boys”. His wife even explains how when he is physically home, he is mentally somewhere else. Jack’s original response to the call from Dr.Racine’s office was that it was an appointment for his wife because he was only halfway paying attention, as he had two other calls going on at the same time. After asking his wife if she was okay because she had an appointment, she informed him that the appointment was for both of them for marriage counseling. Jack now realizes that he has to balance his time between “the boys” and his own life better.
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This scene shows how selfless Jack really is by forgetting his own birthday because of how much he thinks about “the boys.” His original response to the call was concern because he thought something was wrong with his wife. After his wife told him it was for a marriage counselor because he was there but not really, Jack looked betrayed but knows he has to make a balance between his wife and “the boys.”
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When Jack’s wife Rena says that he forgot a birthday, he thinks it is her birthday that he forgot when it is actually his. This just proves Rena’s point about him not mentally being present because he was so distracted by everything else that he could not even remember that it was his own birthday.Jack seems to be in shock when he realizes what he has done because he knows that she is right.
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To add to your point the movie makes us feel like he is always doing something for some else and never thinking about him self by always helping during the day and taking phone calls from them and other people during the night. The start of the movie made me feel he is trying to do more than he should be and needs to dial it back some and focus on his relationship or something that he can do to relax.
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Opportunities to celebrate. To have a party. A gift is being given.
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Even when Rena mentions a “forgotten birthday”, Jack doesn’t even realize it was his own birthday she was mentioning. Jack gives all his attention and so much more to “the boys next door.” This conversation shows just how selfless Jack really is. He’s not just their “keeper” as Barry’s dad mentioned, he’s their friend. Towards the end of the film when Arnold, Norman, and Lucien boarded the train, Jack collapsed into Rena’s arms and began sobbing. Even while arriving back to Barry’s room, Jack gently took off his shoes and covered Barry with a blanket. After Barry’s episode at the golf course, Jack stayed with him. When Lucien spoke the the court, Jack was there holding his hand. He always listened to Arnold talk about Russia, and Norman go on and on about his keys and or donuts. He doesn’t care about his birthday all he cares about is “the boys next door.” The downside of this is he doesn’t give himself time to himself or his wife which, for example, lead them in having to go to a marriage counselor. He tends to prioritize Arnold, Lucien, Barry, and Norman instead of himself and his wife.
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This is one of the early references to Arnold’s “behavior patterns,” this time in reference to the “rat” who cannot see in the dark (“Rats can’t see in the dark; it’s a behavior pattern!”) What for these to pop up in the film here and there.
Think about it. . .aren’t archetypes a form of “behavior pattern?”
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I was able to make a connection back to the rodent the boy next door was talking to his mom about. later on in the film, around 48:39 we get confirmation that the rodent the men killed belonged to the boy that just moved in next door.
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What you have identified is some foreshadowing here. What does the rat represent to the “boys?” What does it mean for Jack?
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The Boys finally caught and killed the rat and were getting ready to flush him when Arnold states “Somebody ought to say something.” This was a big part in the movie showing the sympathy of the Boys. Lucien’s response is the most moving though, by saying, “God, here comes the rat.” Though it may not sound like a thoughtful response, this shows Lucien’s compassion for other creatures and his hope for the rat to be heaven once they flush it. It shows a glimpse of his optimism and sympathetic side by him giving his eulogy to the rat.
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After everyone stood around the toilet flushing the rat that they all collectively worked to kill, Barry seems to bring in some of his coaching side when he tells Arnold, “Anyone who can flush a rat, can do just about anything”. Arnold takes this inspiration from Barry and really reflects and thinks about returning the groceries to the store. It appears that returning the groceries is giving Arnold some anxiety and he is having trouble getting himself to do it.
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I agree. In this scene Barry took a sympathetic approach to encourage Arnold to take his groceries back. By stating, “Anyone who can flush a rat, can do just about anything” Barry is giving Arnold the push he need to have the courage to return his groceries.
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This scene marks the end of Orange 1’s commentary on the film. Feel free to respond to these students.
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Marking The Section.
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In this scene, said something to Arnold about how if he could kill a rat, then he could return groceries to the grocery store. They say the same kind of thing later in the film about something else. I think there is a deeper meaning here. Sometimes when we are down and have lost confidence in ourselves, it’s the little things that can get us bag on track. You can just think to yourself, well if I can do this task, then I should be able to do this.
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I agree with this analysis. Small victories and confidence boosters can be extremely helpful, especially when working with people with disabilities. Helping someone rebuild their self-confidence and self-worth can push them to achieve goals they have missed in the past.
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At this scene jack and Lucien were talking about going and speaking to the senate. The senate wants to know how Lucien is doing. I think its really cool how Jack takes care of them and the main thing was the spider man tie that Lucien wanted. I also think that him wanting a grownup tie instead of a clip on helped this scene grow better.
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I think here, it is important to remember why Lucien needs the tie. He is testifying for the state senate. Their pan is to decrease program funding for people with disabilities. The testimony is for Lucien to share what he thinks. The tie just makes this scene extra special, especially considering Jack is the one talking to him.
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I agree, the tie severs a great importance within this scene. Not only does it allude to why Lucien needs the tie in the first place, as Karis explains, but also his own feelings towards the tie which, I believe, made for this scene to be lighthearted. The way Lucien explains he does not want a clip on tie because those are only for children, which is him expressing that he wants to be thought of as an adult. Even though Lucien still shows his childish behavior when getting excited about wearing the ‘spider man’ tie. I believe this allowed for this scene to connect to the audiences pathos to show how lighthearted Lucien is and how caring Jack is towards him.
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Note the number of times Lucien makes reference to Jack Palmer’s wife, Reena. Once he forgets who she is totally. Here he references her smile. Later in the film, he compliments Reena for “smelling nice.”
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Lucien says that he doesn’t want to a clip-on tie? Why? Because BARRY has suggested that “babies wear clip-on ties.” Instead, Lucien asks for a super hero themed tie that Jack will have to tie for him.
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This is a way to show how fragile a mind of a disabled person may be to the opinions of others around them. Lucien wants to be grown up with a tie that does not clip on but the scene shows how much the boys need Jack when Lucien asks Jack to tie his tie for him.
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Between independence and dependence. How might this become a sort of PSYCHOLOGICAL theme? Do we “normal” people ever feel this kind of tension of wanting freedom but relying upon security?
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I wanted to add a bit of a personal experience as a way of showing that this is true. Mentally disabled people can be very sensitive, and it is important to keep that in mind. My sister, Andrea, is mentally disabled. If you want to use societal terms (that are extremely misused), you could say she’s mentally “retarded” or “slow.” We have to pay very close attention to how we speak with her because her understanding is very limited. She can understand very few words, so her attention to our facial expressions are heightened.
The one time I saw this, or truly realized we have to be careful with her, is when her teeth started to grow in a bit crooked, more crooked and jacked than the average person’s teeth. My dad lowered her jaw and made a certain expression that scared her. She thought something was terribly wrong, when in reality, my dad was just being dramatic. My step-mom reminded him to be careful next time.
So yes, you’re right. Very fragile.
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I think this scene provides a good snapshot of Jack and Lucien’s relationship; that of a carer and their charge. Jack isn’t patronizing. He talks one-on-one with Lucien about his testimony. He is attuned to Lucien’s idiosyncrasies. He grabs his hand without hesitation and knows to count to help Lucien jump from the rock. Jack doesn’t dominate the conversation or dismiss Lucien either. He explains when he needs to and listens.
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It is one of the scenes wherein we get to see Jack in the one:one. It’s a hard place to get to right now in our current school setting and situation. Through the course of the film, we’ll see Jack have this kind of moment with each of the “boys.” One will wait until the very end.
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Notice the name of the store here. So memorable, it could have simply been called “Grocery.” What might be important here is what it reveals to us about the Arnold character and a negotiation he must make in the community.
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Mr. Arnold Wiggins was tricked into buying a way more abundant amount of groceries than he needed. Once he finds the courage to go back to the grocery store to return all of his items, he was mistaken for buying them again. My question is this: Why has society manipulated those with mental illnesses into thinking they are not capable of doing things for themselves. Arnold had to gather a tremendous amount of courage to walk in that grocery store with his unwanted items. I think us, as individuals in society, should become more understanding and spread awareness for mental illnesses.
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Remember the interaction between Arnold and the manager? He couldn’t remember how many boxes he needed. “For you?” the manager asks.
You’re on to something here. He was written off in the first interaction. How might a helpful, more inclusive person have responded to have help Arnold avoid this miscalculation?
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I agree with your comment. Arnold had doubts about going back into the store, but when he did, he had to pay for his unwanted items again. This scene shows how the real world usually is. Instead of the girl saying “You sure like your breakfast cereal,” she could have asked if this was a mistake. Maybe ask if he really intended to buy this amount.
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The girl may also be a archetypal comment on the speed and pace in which the larger world works where there is not time to process and ask the essential question. The focus on speed and efficiency and customer turnaround may have made this young woman forget the person as part of the transaction.
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At first watching I was proud of Mr.Arnolds for going back with enough courage to return the groceries. I was glad he was going to do it after they took advantage of him the first time. Then I see that he gets taken advantage of again. I don’t believe the women knew what he wanted with the groceries but it makes me feel upset for him since he is paying again. I wonder if this happens a lot in real life?
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I think this part of the movie shows how Society doesn’t accommodate to disabled people’s needs. I once saw something on a TED Talk that I watched on my own. The speaker was talking about how one is only disabled if there community doesn’t meet the needs for them to not be disabled. For example, a person in a wheelchair is not disabled if they have a ramp. However, if there was no elevator or ramp and just stairs, their Community has failed them and this causes them to be disabled. It’s sad how the people at the grocery store failed to recognize his disability and accommodate for him. I think this is a big problem in the whole world.
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The cashier lady talks a lot and does not seem to notice that Arnold didn’t want to buy the groceries. She didn’t bother to ask him why he wanted to speak with the manager or why he had so many boxes of cereal. She clearly saw that he was looking for the manager and not the cashier. I do not really think she took advantage of his disability, but she definitely did not do a good job. She probably knew he was disabled, but didn’t do anything about it. If she was the same cashier as the one in the beginning, she would have recognized him and realized that he was not buying the stuff. Arnold did not do anything about it, though. He had the chance to tell the cashier that he was returning the stuff instead of buying it and it is clear that he thought this, but he decided to buy the groceries again. It would have been awkward, but I’d rather have an awkward conversation than be scammed.
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When Arnold comes back to the grocery store to return the groceries, he is not given a chance to speak. This would be hard for someone with a disability because they do not want to interrupt. By the time Arnold was given a chance to talk, the cashier had already scanned half of the items. At this point, I feel as if Arnold would have been embarrassed to tell her that he is returning them. I do not think that the cashier did this on purpose, but it could of. It also could have just been the cashier was not paying enough attention to Arnold. I am curious to hear what other people think about it.
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I think this is a good moment to point out. Arnold obviously had some anxiety and not being given a chance to speak definitely demolished the little confidence he had to try to return them. I think just in general, people should try to be more observant while in customer service, but this was a push for Arnold and his struggle to speak up. While unfortunate, I wonder if moments like these could help him to realize the importance of speaking up in the future.
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People with disabilities are often not given the chance to speak and it is very sad. If people would just take a moment to listen it would make the person with the disability more comfortable to speak. I also feel most people do not do this on purpose but it happens a lot more than it should.
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When Arnold tries to return the groceries to the store, the cashier starts talking over him and is quickly scanning the items in the cart. Arnold is too nervous to tell her that he wants to return the groceries rather than buying them again.
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While this line was designed to a be a funny one, it is a reference to the idea that physicians do not operate on their own family members. As a matter of ethics and interests. Here, Barry makes a suggestion that Lucien is “one of his own.” What is this sense of “own?”
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Barry refers to Lucien as his “own”, I think that he means as a friend but also about how they are in the same boat when it comes to mental illness and being looked down upon by society. It shows that Barry is aware of the world more than the other guys and he is aware of what society thinks of him.
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Barry suggests that Lucien is “one of his own” because they are both long-time friends with mental illness. Barry and Lucien live together. They are so well acquainted with each other. They are basically family.
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In this scene when Arnold walked p to Mrs.Freemus to tell her about the lesson she seemed upset or mad even. I don’t think she realized Mr.Arnols state. When Mr.Arnold began to cry she then realized she has hurt his feelings and feels bad for how she spook to him. Why did it take him crying and getting upset for her to realize the mistake she made.
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Arnold seems to live in the literal. When Mrs. Freemus asks him if he likes soaps, she is inviting him to engage in an activity that she likes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifebuoy_
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What exactly made Mrs. Freemus change her mind about Arnold. When he first walked up to her she immediately jumped on his about stealing the shopping cart, suddenly Arnold began to cry and she then asked if he like to watch soaps. Why did her actions and attitude towards Arnold change so quickly?
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We don’t see the invitation made or accepted. It just is. Perhaps in response to the slight that was created in her commentary on people who do return shopping carts. Don’t we see this same level of response from Mrs. Freemus in her accepting lessons from Barry? Could this be a part of her Caregiver archetype?
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Watch what each character is doing in this scene as it unfolds? What is Arnold doing? Who is telling the story of the day to Jack? How might this role be important to our deeper insights into this film? How does each character respond to their part of the storyteller’s narrative?
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As we watch each of the characters in the scene, we observe all of them doing things that seem to line up with their personalities throughout the movie. For instance, we see Arnold checking to see the pressure of the tires to make sure that it is perfect. Everything is about perfection with Arnold. Norman Bulansky, we see cleaning the windows to make them shiny, perhaps shiny like his keys. Norman appears to have a deep fascination for jingly, shiny objects. Back toward the passenger seat, we see Barry, keeping to himself, deep in thought about the arrival of his dad the upcoming weekend. Jack (not a keeper, but merely a friend) comes out with Lucien after purchasing a few items inside the gas station. Lucien cannot wait to tell Jack the news about Barry’s father coming to visit. Although Lucien doesn’t know a lot of things with his mind, he knows things with his heart. He makes a comment about how Barry has been sad, and down the lately. I feel as if there are a lot of moments in this movie where their personalities are subtly portrayed in the film.
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An interesting idiom to use given our deeper insights into the film, but this is really Barry presenting a lot of information regarding domestic themes (in this case, the relationship between fathers and sons). How does the boy’s response to this differ from Barry’s? From Jack’s? How was this moment foreshadowed by an earlier conversation between Jack and Mrs. Tracy?
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Arnold and Norman did not have a straight forward response to Barry’s obvious discomfort over the subject of his father. Norman changed the subject and Arnold did not say anything. Their responses were different from Jack because he took his feelings into consideration. He checked to see if that was a good thing with his father coming to see him. This really put into perspective how Barry was treated as a kid and his feeble attempts to defend him shows he does not blame in the least. The conversation Mrs. Tracy and Jack had in the beginning said “if the rest of the guys are fender benders, Barry is the Hindenburg coming in for a fast landing.” This may explain that his childhood contributed to his anxiety with his father and that he is not in a good place because of this.
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See, too, the conversation at the Pro Shot Golf Range wherein Jack suggests that his family has “written him off.”
A clue to what Barry’s childhood might have looked like comes from the visit that comes later. We’ll describe that later in the comment thread.
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Now after watching the whole film I understand more about Barry and how his relationship with his dad. I do still have some questions though. Was Barry so nervous because he knew his father was not going to be proud of him deep down? Or did Barry have that fear because of his father having a history of being aggressive with him? Perhaps both? This whole scene made my heart hurt for Barry and want to understand his character as much as I could.
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*His relationship with his dad. For the first sentence.
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I can see where Katherine is coming from. Barry’s reconnection with his father was a moment in the film that had to be built up. It was not a moment in the film that could appear, it had to have specific details mentioned so we would know what would later happen in the film. Barry’s response to his father at the golf course showed the viewers what was really going on. The viewers knew that Barry had schizophrenia, but not how it effected him. Barry tried his best to impress his father to the best of his ability and the situation did not go as he had planned. This whole exchange between him and his father put the viewers brains in a different perspective on Barry’s character.
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Lucien’s family had institutionalized and ostracized him. Lucien tries to come off like his father’s visit isn’t a big deal. “Don’t have a cow.” He even tries to excuse his father’s neglect “He’s a very busy man.” He goes on to try and spotlight the good in his father, “He always sends me candy on my birthday.”
“..when his schedule permits..” Is a son, loved by his father, someone to “fit” into a schedule?" His choice of words and phrases reveal a lot about their relationship
I think this scene could bring up an important conversation about family.
For me at least, family is not defined by blood. It is defined by those who are there for you, and who love and support you regardless. I would argue that Jack is family to Barry more than his own father is.
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I think Ella is right. Jack is the clear father figure in Barry’s life. When Barry is talking about his dad he makes excuses and glosses over the severity of what his father has done to him. It just shows how abuse is not only physical but much of the abuse is mental in cases like Barry’s
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The moment that Jack comforts Barry after his father became aggressive with him was a really emotional moment in the film. While Jack visited and comforted Barry, I could not help thinking about how Jack was going to be leaving him when he was in such a low place. I wonder if Barry felt like he was losing his dad again.
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At this point in the film, it appears that everyone in the group has something that they are looking forward to. For Barry, it is his visit wit his dad. For Lucian, it is his testimony in front of the “State Snack”. For Arnold, it seems to be his million dollar ticket, and for Norman, it is getting to dance with Sheila. I ask you all, do you think all of these hopes will go well, or will some not work out?
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For each event for which the character is looking forward, is there a degree of challenge or potential loss? We know that Arnold is not going to win the lottery. What of his desire to go to Russia (which he also uses as a threat by way of retreat). Jack has told us how Lucian might respond to the testimony he must deliver to the “State Snack” (it is the allure of the Spiderman tie that guides him forward). The Sheila situation brings along the possibility of losing keys. And Barry’s visit with his father has already been foreshadowed by the letter that has arrived and his interaction with Lucian at the dance.
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I agree with you, Mr. Hankins, that there is a point of risk with each of the character’s goals. At this point while watching the movie, I thought that most of the dreams would come true, but obviously that was not the case by the end of the film.
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I am reading this after seeing the whole movie, so I already know that some of these things do not go according to plan. I think that the movie led us to believe that the situation with Barry and his father was not going to go well. If you remember earlier in the movie, Jack said that Barry’s family left him. No loving father just abandons their child especially when they have schizophrenia. What also leads me to believe this is you can just tell how nervous Barry is. It doesn’t seem like he is excited, rather worried.
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The Innocent/Orphan senses real tension in the possible disappointment of someone with whom they feel deep connection (this is the Innocence). When they feel “outside” of the relationship because of something said or done, they feel this pain, “completely and fully” (this is the Orphan tension). This is demonstrated pretty well here in the interaction regarding returned groceries.
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You could tell how much better it made Arnold feel once Jack took a second to say he was proud of Arnold for taking the groceries back. Just shows how something so small like that can mean so much.
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Check the attire here and the outfit she will be wearing by the end of the scene. While Sheila becomes Norman’s platonic ideal here, she also presents a glimpse into the possible subtext of our film.
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This seems to be a regularly-occurring program that brings the people from the larger community together. Remember our film takes place in Chicago, a larger city with a diverse population. This scene takes up about ten percent of the film and presents little vignettes for each of the characters.
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I think this scene shows off each of the guys characters so that throughout the rest of the film their characters can grow and develop. It gives the audience insight into the minds of each man and what the world looks like through their eyes.
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Some of my family lives near Chicago and I find that the city is truly diverse. I have been in the city countless times and I find that There are lots of gatherings and things to do and in the film the party seamed to be a big gathering and a dance.
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I agree that Chicago is a diverse city, but this dance does not seem to be for everyone, but for people who are involved with social services.
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I agree with Ethan in this matter, I believe that yes, Chicago is diverse, but the dance is set up specifically for the disability center in the movie not for everyone in Chicago.
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Notice how the “boys” travel together here. Yes. They share a ride with Jack. But, note that the plan has always been that they attend the dance together. They share their experiences from past dances they have attended.
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In this scene of the movie you can see Jack reproaching the group of guys to tell them to stay out of trouble, basically saying not to do anything stupid. I think this is really important because he treats the group of guys that have mental disabilities as if they did not and if they were 100 percent able people. This can keep them with a sense of mind that they ARE normal and should be accepted by everybody else.
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I don’t really know if he is trying to treat them like they are different but I think it is impossible not to do so. These four guys have major disabilities and need help with everyday tasks. I don’t think that there is a way that Jack would be able to refrain from this
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When compiling my previous statement about how Jack treats his “clients” I am referent more of the idea that Jack does not WANT to treat them as if they were different. Obviously, there are restraints to this, as he may need to be sure to comfort them more than if they were not mentally disabled. I just wanted to reassure that Jack does not think of them in such a way that they are his clients anymore than they are his friends or even family.
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Arnold demonstrates a little bit of jealousy here in regard to this person and his fancy sneakers. Robert Goulet is an entertainer from the 60s and 70s that I would have known as a child. Will Ferrell lampoons Robert Goulet in multiple SNL sketches while he was a member of the cast.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Goulet
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As the film develops, we see compelling connections between Barry and Lucian as evidenced by the possibility that Lucian could golf with Barry. Watch for this relationship to develop further.
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I almost see their relationship as though they are siblings. I came to this idea because whenever one of them needs help, the other is there to do whatever they can.
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Jack has all but abandoned Reena at this event. Even as he approaches her, he is still fielding concerns from the people at the dance, offering advice, high-fiving others. How is this an example of Jack’s divided attentions and affections?
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Jack is as selfless as selfless gets. He is constantly checking up others, seeing how they’re doing, and making certain everyone’s alright. We find him throughout the moving considering others, but never really himself or his needs, besides maybe getting his new job at the end of the film. But up untill his last scene with the “boys,” he is right by their side, where they need him.
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Yes, his attention is very divided and Reena seems to once again be the last thing on his mind when instead she should be the first because she’s his wife.
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Notice how Jack uses a metaphor here to try to diffuse the current conflict at home even after having demonstrated that conflict in the moment leading up to this dance.
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Reena offers a simple solution to the problem of Norman’s keys. Watch Jack’s response as Norman contemplates the suggestion.
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Jack reacts in quite a shocked manner. While the solution Reena offers may seem simple, its not simple for Norman. He really values his keys, worries over them. Later in the film its quite a big moment for him to gift a set of keys to Shiela So while the solution may have seemed simple, it wasn’t simple for Norman to enact. He values the much more than anyone else might. The fact he is willing to trust someone else with this treasured item surprises Jack.
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The keys are a key symbol in the movie and they are a portal to get in and out of these. Norman loves his keys a lot and when Reena tells Jack a suggestion he knows it will not work because Norman would never part with his keys.
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I have hear many times throughout the movie so far the mention of Normans keys. He seems very protective over them, almost like the are the key to his life. I am surprised in this scene that he would give them up. Maybe there is something i’m missing though.?
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I think that Norman gave up his keys to Jack instead of Sheila because Jack is a very trusted person in Norman’s life. He trusts Jack more than possibly anyone in his life, unlike Sheila who he does not trust as much.
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I agree with you that I think the keys are mentioned so much in the movie because they mean something more than just the fact that they are keys. I feel like at this point in the movie, Norman just gives his keys to Jack knowing that he will give them back instead of having to tell Sheila he couldn’t give them to her. I like the thinking of the keys representing something, but I feel like him giving keys to Jack is as simple as it sounds.
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This interaction between Jack and Arnold, while comedic, really shows how manic Arnold can be. While most people would just accept that there is water on their pants and move one, this really worries Arnold and makes him seemingly overthink the situation. His solution makes sense, but is not the first solution that came to my mind. I would like to know what others thought of this interaction.
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I agree and Arnold has many points in the movie where he may have forgotten to take his medication and starts getting hyper. This water scene is an example but also in the movie Arnold has a problem with returning his groceries. Later on he overcomes this which is a milestone in his life.
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I really like this interaction between Jack and Arnold. This scene, I feel, puts the disability that Arnold has into perspective truly. It describes in detail how his mind thinks, jumping from one thought to another, and over complicating a situation that would have caused most people to get a little bit annoyed at, but would have just carried on.It really piques my interest, and makes me analyze how the mind of someone else works. It’s just one of those things I find neat.
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Arnold gets splashed with water and instead of leaving it alone he splashes more water on him to make his pants blend together. Anyone else would of just dried their pats or left it alone.
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Arnold did this because he did not want others to judge him. It made more since to him to make it look like an accident happened rather than have a few spots on his pants.
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Arnold splashes water on his pants yes, but he doesn’t just do that. He also goes around and tells people made up stories, because his anxiety compels him to do so. The scene really shows the panic that he feels at some points don’t you think?
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Barry and Lucian sit down and Barry begins to talk about his true feelings about his dad’s upcoming visit. This is an important topic because, as it was mentioned earlier, his family has mostly forgotten and ignored him. Barry also wants it to be something kept “secret” between him and Lucian. This either shows that Barry trusts Lucian and thinks he would be more understanding than the other guys or that he needed someone to talk to (maybe both). I think this is an interesting aspect and I am wondering if this contributes to their relationship and the progression it will make over the course of the film especially, as mentioned before, if Lucian begins to take golf lessons from Barry.
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I’ve always found it interesting that the most “limited” character within the film finds this connection to the one most “mobile.” The complexity of Barry’s condition make him probably the most potentially-volatile “boy” and the most apt to be admitted to an increase level of living assistance (perhaps even hospitalization). We see Lucien more drawn to Barry than any other “boy” within the house.
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I found this conversation to be a little bit off. The way Barry acted when he received the letter and how he claims that his dad scares him, makes me wonder if maybe some of the things that are wrong within could be post trauma that happened as a child. Was his father abusive towards him?
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We see something of a hint in the visit from Bob Klemper that happens later in the film. Watch closely for some nonverbal, verbal, and physical words and actions that give us a glimpse into what this might have looked like.
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Watch Lucian offer Barry a cookie. That’s a visual “communion” right there, young people.
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At first Barry seemed okay with his dad coming but something did always seem off with it. While Barry is talking to Lucien, he says his dad scares him very badly. I wonder if his dad abused him for being different or if his dad yelled at him a lot. It does make me wonder.
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Watch as Jack observes Norman and Sheila engaged in their dance. Jack realizes how important this moment is to Norman. How does Jack visualize this moment and how does this lend to a deeper insight into his character?
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I think Norman and Sheila’s dance warmed the audience’s hearts while watching. The dance had underlying symbolism, showing there is no difference between the disabled and not disabled. During the dance one can see the pure happiness on both of their faces, just like any other person in that very room. Sheila and Norman are resembling the article read two weeks ago called “Defying Definition,” by Shaun David Hutchinson. The dance correlates with article by saying there is no one certain look to someone who has a disability.
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Note this is not a shared perspective. This is what JACK sees when he watches them. It’s a POV that comes up at different points in the film. For each one of the “boys.” Watch for them.
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Jacks job as a caregiver had allowed him to be able to look past the disabilities. He has connected with each of the boys and sees them as respected individuals with their own interest. To Jack the dance was just two people enjoying a dance.
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How might Jack’s vision become a shared one? How might he step outside of this role to share this vision? Is his impact limited by the safety in staying within this one group living situation with this particular group?
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I think Jack’s vision is something that could be applied to other groups, however it is questionable if Jack ever will. Jack spends most of his time doing things to take care of the boys, to the extent that his wife is concerned and has even signed them up for marriage counseling. Jack does have good intentions and cares about these boys and this is commendable as it seems many others in this film do not care or think they are better than the disabled and take advantage of them. One example of this is with Arnold and what happens at the grocery store. I do agree that the dance between Norman and Sheila is wonderful and is a good example of how those who are disabled are not much different than those who are not and that their disability does not define them. In conclusion, I think Jack is limited by his situation with this particular group as it is what he spends the majority of his time and energy focused on. He is doing what he does for the right reasons however his execution may be a little off.
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This dance is truly a very powerful scene. It may just seem like a normal dance in every other movie, but it is between two people with mental handicaps. The dance shows people that everyone deserves the rights to be in love or be in a relationship. Everyone is allowed to be happy, especially someone who is seen as “retarded” or “slow”.
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Marking This Start/Stop Point
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Look at the blocking for this scene wherein Jack is part of a triangular conversation but appears to be one-against-two here as he starts the scene with an elevated voice and a defensive position.
Remember Arnold from the opening scenes when confronted with the complexity of Wheaties and lettuce and charcoal briquettes?
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One of the more tender parts of the film, we see Jack and Reena attending their counseling appointment. Watch Jack’s responses to the questions being asked by Dr. Racine as they lend to a possible theme of the film from one of our categories.
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Reena makes a valid point. She says she feels that Jack is guilty, he says “guilty for what”. Reena goes on to say, “I think you feel guilty about whats going to happen to them when you leave. I think you feel guilty about needing to take care of yourself for a change. All I know is these dear, sweet, damaged guys are eating you up alive.” Although Jack knows that these guys “need him”, I think what reenactment had to say really made Jack stop and evaluate the situation. Is him helping others mental health caring his mental heath to deteriorate?
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This moment between Jack, Reena, and an outside party help to put the conflict into better focus for Jack. Observe how Jack is so focused upon the needs of his “boys” that he missed the needs of his own wife sitting on the sofa next to him. There is also the incident of being so distracted that he missed his own birthday.
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Right at the beginning of the scene between Jack and his wife and what seems to be their marriage counselor, Jack begins reveal his true emotions towards his friends asking Reena and the counselor what it is exactly they want Jack to say or reveal and there’s a lot of pathos in this one scene.
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In the very beginning of the counseling appointment with the marriage counselor Jack is very aggressive and defensive towards the Doctor and his questions. As the interview progressed however, it revealed that John felt guilt towards wanting to accept the new job and better pay, this dilemma continues throughout this film and is represented later with the boys in Jack’s position and Jack in the role of the doctor.
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This is something that stood out to me as well, you could tell Jack was on edge and stressed during the counseling appointment. I think that Jack has such a strong connection with the boys he feels guilty for leaving and it makes it ten times harder to leave. He knows that the job will better him for the future, but doesn’t want to leave these boys that feel like family to him. If I were in Jack’s position I would be conflicted too.
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I find it interesting Jack has decided that no matter what he does here, it’s a lose-lose situation both ways. The guys he lives with are making him miserable, but he thinks that leaving them won’t do any good either.
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In this scene, Jack admits to needing a new job. He is very aggressive and defensive. He pointedly states that he deserves better, the guys deserve better, and so on. The therapist cuts in and says, " What about your wife? Maybe she deserves better." Jack instantly agrees. He knows that he is not always there and that his wife needs more from him, however he seems almost stuck. It is like he can not convince himself to let go of the boys.He knows things need to change, but he does not have the will to do it.
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When Jack say “… they deserve better, I deserve better, somebody deserves better,” instantly the counselor infers that maybe Jacks wife deserves better maybe due to the fact that he noticed that Jack never once mentioned his wife throughout anything he said at the beginning of the scene. However, that is the counselors opinion, therefore not answering Jacks question/statement on who deserves better.
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During this moment in time on the film Jack is having some hardship within his situation. He states “they deserve better, I deserve better, somebody deserves better.” Jack is noticing in which his life is being consumed by the lifestyle of being a care taker to the boys. However, he knows deep in his heart the boys deserve to have someone great. They deserve someone who will put all of their thought, care, and attention towards. Jack knows this will take a huge toll on the boys, as they are very attached to him. But this is what is best for Jack and he knows it.
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The dilemma in this scene is that Jack wants a new job, but doesn’t want to leave. He feels responsible for the guys he takes care of and that puts a strain on his marriage. He has bonded to them and even tells the counselor “They’ll never not need me”. The fear is that no one can take care of them like he does, but the new lady seems willing and ready to do it. Maybe after Jack leaves he won’t know what to do, maybe he’ll see how unhappy is. I’m not sure if quitting is going to give him the fulfillment and happiness he craves. Another theory is that he wants to be needed and taking care of them gives him a sense of purpose.
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Faced with the truth of what the job is requiring of him, we see a shadow Caregiver archetype expressing itself. I cannot quit because they need me. The truth may be that the boys would accept the immediate care of the next person to walk into the house. This is what an Innocent archetype would do.
In this scene, however, we do get a bit of a RELIGIOUS theme coming out in Jack Palmer’s making “God” responsible for the condition of his boys and their endless need. In this light, Jack casts himself as a sort of “savior.”
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Throughout the session, Jack has been angry and defensive, not wanting to let his wife and therapist see how much the job gets to him, however, something changes. Jack’s wife turns to him and says, “…these dear, sweet, damaged guys are eating you up alive.” You can see Jack deflate. I see two possible reasons, first is that he knows. He knows how much the guys are taking from him and he does not know how to stop it. Or, it is the bluntness. No one has stopped him outright and told him this. Sometimes when you are in the thick of it, it is hard to see what is really happening. And even if he does know, sometimes someone else acknowledging it is what it takes. Trusting your own mind can be hard sometimes.
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Jack knows that this isn’t the best job for him because he believes that “the boys” deserve better, his wife deserves better, and he deserves better. He doesn’t want to leave though because he will feel too guilty and just focusing on himself. You can tell this topic is a very sensitive one for him.
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In this moment Jack is facing the truth of the matter. The job as a social worker can often times consume the life of the worker. The job of a social worker is not just a job, it becomes one’s life. Overtime Jack being the boys social worker has made a huge impact on him. Jack’s wife is openly stating his dealing with “feeling guilty of doing something for himself.” The therapist says “Is that right Jack?” Jack knows the truth, he needs to leave the boys although it will be something very hard to do. I feel that anyone in Jack’s position would feel the same pressure and guilt.
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In this scene, Jack explains how he would feel guilty to leave his job. He wants a new job, but would feel responsible for those he is leaving behind. His feeling of responsibility is not good for him and his wife. While they are at counseling, he explains his concern. The counselor then tells him how this is not good for their marriage.
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How might this scene work as a thematic comment coming out of Social (work) or Gender (male reluctance to expressing feeling and frustration) or Social-Domestic (how work affects the marital relationship). Or Psychological (Jack continues to try to negotiate for his work even as it presents challenges to the rest of his life).
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This isn’t an uncommon issue, especially those who parent someone who is, not just intellectually, disabled. All of your energy goes to taking care of your child because they need that help and you love them. “They’ll never not need me anymore.” I know this is how my parents feel about my sister. Since she is on the more severe side, she probably won’t be able to live alone without assistance. She will always need one of us. That has been rather frustrating for my family because we always have to look extra forward for her. It’s difficult. I can see their issues. We relate to them.
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I like that the counselor points out the subjective rules that Jack has set in place for himself. Jack has fully fabricated the belief that he has no choice in all this.
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In this scene, Jack and his wife go to marriage counseling to speak about their issues. Jack is torn about feeling the burden and guilt of getting mad and feeling like he is abandoning them. Jack bursts out that he has to take care of them, and their marriage counselor asked who made that rule, Jack replied with “I didn’t make the rules, not me, God.” I believe Jack says this to express his frustration with God and to show how God is a unfair being with who gets to be cursed with disability.
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This was something I wanted to touch on as well. You brought up a really good point about his potential frustration he may have with God. Jack realizes it is out of his power that they have a mental disability, however, you can kind of sense that frustration he has with God for making them intellectually limited. It’s difficult. I feel his frustration comes from a place of love. Not a place of anger or a “Why me?” attitude.
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Lots of comments in this scene regarding how work is divided and who does what and why there are exemptions for some that may not be apparent for others. This could be an example of a blended Social-Domestic theme. It may not be the over-arching theme of the film, but it is here nonetheless.
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This scene begins with the two at a therapist and Jack’s wife telling him that he is not telling her everything, and that Jack needs to take care of himself for a change.
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The scene between Norman and Lucian situates the two characters with the highest degree of simplicity in the film in dialogue.
Don’t miss Lucien’s acute observation that “there are no trees” in their setting. More than something cute or comical he might say, how might this lend to the subtext of the film?
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After the counselling scene, the one proceeding it has a high contrast when compared to it. We go from a strained, depressing setting to a more “normalized” one, which also gives us insight on how the guys are when Jack isn’t around.
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I realized throughout this film that Norman always seemed to be the first to the door, and in doing so always said the line, “My Name is Norman Bulanski Welcome to MY home.” This particular line would insinuate that Norman is the one who owns the house which is not the case. I believe that Norman feels he has a sense of authority in the house, and he illustrates this by announcing that it is his home, who is doing which particular chore, and complaining how Barry is getting out of his chores. I fell that Norman has almost a fatherly role with the others inside the house, but at the same time once Jack enters he almost immediately defers to Jack as the authority.
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I think that Norman always says welcome to my home and offers food and donuts to his guests, to make them feel welcomed and comfortable when visiting his house. He wants people to feel at home and share donuts with him since he loves them too. I agree that Norman does play the fatherly role when Jack is not there, he wants his friends and himself to succeed and make Jack proud.
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It is hard to believe that everyone’s medication would be kept in a singular, communal space. Especially with the kinds/types of medications each of the boys might need to regulate/remedy their condition. But, the scene does foreshadow events to come in the film as Jack “walks down” each medication caddie to report on how each of his “boys” is doing.
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I agree because I think it would be difficult to keep track and tell them when they need to take it. Jack has worked with them so much that he knows how much they need to take to get through the day.
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I agree, having no specific order in the communal space I feel that the medication could easily be mixed up. This would lead to a mistake when distributing the medication to the boys, not knowing which is which. I feel like one of the boys could easily disorder the medication, causing extreme confusion.
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In this scene we observe Jack checking the medicine cabinet to make sure all of the boys took their medication. Jack being the boy’s social worker, he takes on many jobs and duties of being their caregiver. Through the film we see he is not only their caregiver, but he is their role model. They look up to Jack and I know deep in Jack’s heart he is going to struggle to tell the boys he has to leave. It is the little things such as checking their medication in which Jack won’t be able to perform for them once he is gone.These duties are not “work” for Jack this is his life. These boys are his life.
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As Jack checks that his boys are taking their medication we see something slightly worrying. It seems that Barry has not been taking his medication. As the viewer, we can assume it is from the stress and anxiety of his father coming to visit, as he earlier mentioned the fear his father causes him. Yet looking closer, I noticed something. Jack seems disappointed. Because of the situation this makes sense, however Jack does not see nervous or surprised. It seems like he expected Barry to stop taking his medication. It begs the question, how often does Barry drop his medications like this?
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While Jack does not have a look of shock on his face, the audience can still see the lines of anguish. Jack is clearly affected by the news, and knows he will have to be authoritative with Barry. Perhaps this anguish comes from Jack seeing the boys like his sons, or family, and always wanting the best for them. Perhaps this anguish comes from being the boys caretaker, and feeling as if he is failing at his job when things like this slip by. Perhaps it is there because he is going through so much already with them, he does not need the additional stress. Jack is a fairly selfless person, therefore I believe it is a combination of all.
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There is a big meeting that is essential to this group living situation but instead it is this quotidian concerns like “steak sauce” and “rugs” that take up the air time. Could this scene be a comment on social discourse?
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I think that the big meeting that was about “steak sauce” and “rugs” was actually supposed to be meant for all the big changes coming up. Some of them being Jake needing to tell the boys about him getting a new job and not going to be able to take care of them anymore, marriage counseling with his wife, the boys not taking their medications, and Barry’s Dad coming into town. I think that this scene could be a comment on social discourse because the boys are communicating about their living situation and concerns.
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…adding on to what Ava was saying, I do indeed believe this meeting was about what the future holds. Jake had to find a way to tell everyone what was going on and how everything was going to happen. Him calling a meeting was the perfect way to go about this.
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Along with other scenes in the film, this is Jack in a one:one interaction with Norman on the subject of interpersonal relationships. Presented as “tricky” by Jack, Norman attempts to relate information give to him by Barry regarding members of the opposite sex. How might a comment on Interpersonal/Intimacy work here? For whom is this “tricky” as suggested by Jack? What item within our text set might illuminate the “trickiness” of interabled relationships (too big of a clue, I know).
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I believe this scene is one of the best at showing Jack’s relationship with the boys, specifically Norman. Here we see Norman and Jack sit down as Norman nervously tries to ask if Shela can come over to his “pad.” This highlights the almost fatherly relationship he has with these boys. The co-dependence they require to function is eye-opening.
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In this scene, Norman asks Jack if he can have Sheila over to “see his crib” and “be alone”. The audience can very clearly tell by Normans mannerisms that he is nervous to ask this. Perhaps it is because he figures Jack will say no. Jack has become somewhat of a father figure to all of the boys. This theme is accentuated in this scene, because they are sitting down having a typical “ask your parent” talk. Jack is clearly the authoritative figure.
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I agree, throughout the entirety of the movie Jack shows characteristics of being a father figure. Norman asking Jack if Sheila can come over and if they can hangout alone reveals Jack is In authority. Norman wouldn’t have to ask if he didn’t consider Jack as a father figure/authoritative figure.
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Going back to “Men Speak Up” by Akin Olunsanya in last weeks weekly work, the poem basically talks how men ‘should be and act’ and watching jack help Norman and the other with their problems and ignoring his own really made think of the verse in Akin’s poem “..always be strong..,”because that is what Jack has been doing throughout the film. Some of us did not know because he kept it hidden just like most us men do.
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We can clearly tell Jack is stressed at this point. He’s had things thrown at him, such as marriage counseling, and now some of the boys are not taking their medication or as much medication as they should be taking (i.e. Arnold and Barry). He’s also stressed over the fact of if he decides to leave his job and how the boys will react to him going.
My question is, Why does Jack only Arnold why he isn’t taking his medication? Could it have been the spur of the moment because Arnold was talking about surprises? Why didn’t Jack wait for Barry to get home so he could ask him too?
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I agree with you here on Jack being stressed out with everything going on in his life during this scene and think you made some good points. To answer your questions I think Jack only asked Arnold if he was taking his medications because he was the only one in the room and like you said a spur of the moment. Also I think Jack should have waited to confront Barry and Arnold together, but since Barry was not in the room at the time he didn’t.
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I believe in this moment there was a lot going on. The tensions were high, people were yelling, things were happening, and Jack got pushed past his limit. I would fully agree that Jack only mentioned the medication to Arnold because it was the heat of the moment. I believe at a calmer moment Jack would not have spurred this out. However, he definitely said this during the heat of the moment without thinking of his words before he said it. Which is human nature and this happens to everyone. I do not believe Jack meant any harm by this claim, he was stressed out because of his circumstances.
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This is the second time we have seen Jack exasperated by the behavior of the boys in chorus. This time the weave of ties, and rugs, and Sheila, and a visit all come together to test and try Jack’s patience.
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This blow up was ironically placed at the perfect time. During the therapy session jack made a comment about how he feels bad when he blows up and takes his anger out on them. Not minutes after, he screams “Would you all give it a rest, I feel like I’m inside a blender”. Jack’s patients are tested everyday dealing with the men, but he has concerned himself with what would happen if he wasn’t around to take care of them.
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How Jack is able to navigate each boy’s concerns in the one:one, but what happens when all of the boys have a need all at once? Thus, the “blender” comment here.
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After Jack “blows-up” on the boys about them all talking at once, Barry comes in completely oblivious to what just went on. It seemed like as soon as we hear the front door close and Barry walk in, the mood changed, and the tone went back under control. No yelling, just calm voices when talking to him.
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This time we can really see Jack get frustrated with everyone and lose his temper. This scene gives us a good insight into what Jack is dealing with day to day and how difficult it must be to take care of everyone. Jack was not only ready to tell them he will not be able to take care of them, but he was also ready for mental relief which ended up being the opposite of what happened.
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Although throughout the movie Jack seems exhasperated by the boys, Jack seems to have reached his tipping point. In the therapy session scene earlier in the film, Jack gets anguished to the point of yelling just thinking about his relationship with stress surrounding the boys. Jack states that he gets angry with himself when he goes off on the boys. He does it in this scene, proving that he really had to reach his boiling point to actually yell at the boys.
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Earlier on in the film Jack had said that every time he loses his temper with the guys, Jack feels guilty for a whole week. So in this case, is Jack feeling guilty? I don’t think so because he hasn’t shown it, but then again, he may be hiding it.
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First: Notice the name of the gas station: Wood. Lawn. Interesting.
Second, this is the only other business entity we have ever observed mentioned in the film (I wonder if it is the same one we see all of the boys at before the dance). Note Lucien’s appreciation of the gas station, “There is a man there that likes me. He told me he likes me.”
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Twenty-four hours in advance of his father’s visit, we see Barry tacking a sign welcoming his father. How does the simplicity of the sign and its placement lend to the subtext of this film?
How do the suggestions offered by the boys seem to echo back Arnold’s grocery solutions and water splashing avoidance of complexity of problems and problem-solving?
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Within the context of the film we can observe that earlier Jack noticed Barry had not been taking his medication as he usually should. Now here we observe Barry is busy putting up the sign he created for his dad visiting. I believe the simplicity of the sign has a lot of context within the film. Although Barry’s sign may be simple it is showing the heart and care for what he is doing. By putting the sign up twenty-four hours prior it shows the impact his dad visiting has on him. Barry is truly excited and this compassion is shown through the sign. Right now this is his main priority.
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I noticed something in this scene that surprised me. As the boys argue, Jack takes a seat in the corner. As he sits, he slumps against the wall, looking tired and defeated. This look may partially be the guilt of yelling at the boys seconds earlier, or it may be defeat from the chaos around him. Very few times do we see Jack this defenseless and vulnerable, it seems that, for a moment, Jack is lost.
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This does appear to be a rare moment of Jack being lost. The camera is actually spaced quite far and the music builds in tension and volume, almost as if something is about to spill over in Jack. He is spacing out and the chaos is being drowned out by the music. He may be considering that what was said in therapy is true and that the stress is not healthy.
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Norman Bulanksi is eyeing Karen’s set of keys. He is fascinated by them. This is a reference back to the beginning of the movie, when Norman tells Jack not to take away his keys because he needs them in the donut line.
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I think this scene acts as a break from the chaos that ensued moments before. The new neighbor comes to the door asking if they’ve seen her sons hamster. I’m not sure who goes door to door looking for a hamster, but to each their own. Unbeknownst to her, the boys killed it thinking it was a rat. The point is really pushed when she asks if they could help “flush him out” since they flushed the hamster down the toilet. Although slightly mortifying, it provides a sense of comic relief from a heavier topic. Barry and the others begin to sign songs of mourning while Lucien starts to cry. I thought it was funny, but it’s a look at real life. What happens happens and there’s nothing to be done about it now. As Jack says “Life works like that sometimes” and “You gotta rock n roll.”
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How might the death of the “hamster” work/weave into our deeper insights into the film’s subtext? The hamster would be one with our “boys” in this case.
Interesting here that the neighbor who introduced herself as “Joan” at the beginning of the film re-introduces herself as Karen. This is more than a goof now, isn’t it?
And notice they saved the house that is NEXT DOOR for last as though a hamster might travel far.
What do we make of Norman’s notice of Karen’s “keys?” And of Jack’s physical prompting to avert Norman’s gaze?
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This is something that stood out to me as well. I think that this movie was very raw, powerful, and heavy but this scene gave us a little comic relief. It makes you aware that the boys have feelings, which they react to in different ways. Lucien starts to cry and the others sing and laugh it off, like they don’t know what the neighbor is talking about. I think its funny because the neighbor called them retarded and the three stooges at the beginning but now is asking if they have seen her hamster. Also how do you lose a hamster?
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I noticed something of importance as Jack is telling the group the “life works like that sometimes”, as they are all visibly upset about the hamster they killed earlier in the film. This particular quote brought me back to the counseling appointment where Jack said he would feel guilty about leaving the boys, and it seemed like a supremely similar situation to Jack’s guilt surrounding his new job. The two situations altogether represent the same dilemma of moving on, but with two different groups of people.
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I agree with how similar both situations are. I wonder if by saying “Life works like that sometimes”, Jack is setting it up for when he leaves. It could be a stretch, but when they ask why he’s leaving he can refer back to this situation.
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It may also be a self reassurance. While he is trying to console the boys, he may also be reminding himself that things sometimes have to change and life goes on. He can not always be there for them.
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While meant to be lighthearted and comical, look how this word and its connotations have found its/their way into Lucien’s language, this time taking opportunity to ascribe the word to Jack’s simple error.
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This is also extremely interest as this is not the first time we hear the word in the movie. In the very beginning of the movie is it said by the new neighbor, an abled person. Notice how the word is discouraged both times, but how someone as an audience member would feel hearing the words from these two characters.
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The “R Slur” has grown to be a word that does not exist in my vocabulary. It is a word used to beat down people with disabilities. This was still the case when this movie was released. So, how I see this as is the writer pointing out that sometime in Lucien’s life he picked up that word. Someone referred to him as the “R slur.”
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This reminded me of how language is contagious when you use it in front of people, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. I’m going to assume he didn’t learn this word from someone using it in an appropriate way. He most likely heard it from someone using it against him, which is actually really sad.
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The R slur has become a very complicated and confusing word. There are people that will use the slur daily and also people who would be very upset if one were to use the word. I am on the middle of the spectrum, personally I refrain from using the word because of its negative connation associated with the word. I understand why people use this word today because five to ten years ago this word was commonly used and often times used in a joking manner.
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This segment here highlights Jack’s role as a sort of parental guardian to the boys. Jack makes something like testifying in court seem like such a big deal to Lucien to make him seem like he’s doing something extraordinary. He is attempting to boost his confidence and ease his nerves before going into testify.
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“What’s the because, Jack?”
As Jack prepares Lucien for the experience to come he relates that no other member of the house has ever been asked to do what he is doing. There is a suggestion that what he is doing is unique. Heroic. Thus. . .the Spiderman tie.
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Jack is telling Lucien the different reasons that he was picked to attend the event. He includes the fact that none of the other boys he lives with have been asked to attend. Jack does this as a confidence booster for Lucien.
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Lucien does seem rather jittery and nervous in this scene. Jack saying such a thing probably makes him feel special and distracts him from the unfamiliar-ness of it all.
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In the entirety of the scene, we see Lucien “mystified” by the symbols, the steel, the steps. All of this is a journey into the unknown. So unfamiliar from his day-to-day setting of the Day Center wherein he does his work. This is where we might draw more evidence of the intimidating affect of the official spaces.
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Do we believe that any person on the panel wants to be here or are they filling a committee quota in this scene? Where is the helpful, empathetic presence within the panel?
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In this scene, the board members give off this feeling of sadness for Lucien, or are feeling bad that he is the way he is. And I also think that the way the lines are delivered shows how they probably feel and think that this is a waste of time. Overall, this a super important scene to help understand who Lucien is as a person.
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The staff has informed Lucien (perhaps through Mrs. Tracy and Jack Palmer). The committee seems to be only “interested in the truth so there are not right or wrong answers.”
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This scene does not show Lucien in his actual, Mentally disabled form, and instead portrays him as if he was an extremely articulate, well spoken man. A lot can be learned from Lucien’s statement that read “Civilization’s are judged by how they treat their most helpless of citizens”. I believe that this quote stretches much further than this. It seems as in today’s world People are also judged upon this same standard. As people grow increasingly sensitive to others feelings, the standard on which people are to be treated seems to be much more regulated and held accountable by society. I believe that because of this we are much closer to understanding the struggle of those who have disabilities and are much more understanding of what they may be going through.
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In the beginning of the scene, Lucien is preoccupied with his new surroundings and is clearly nervous. After the board asks the first question, he says “Spiderman tie” quietly and then again after he gets the microphone. The tie is mentioned when Lucien’s visit to the Senate is mentioned, and Lucien associates the tie with “business,” unlike clip-on ties mentioned earlier, and maturity. It is the first words he says, or attempts to say to the board members. The tie could represent Lucien’s attempt to be a part of the formal world outside his house, with Spiderman, the comic book hero, representing his bravery as well as his lack of understanding of this new world.
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This segment here is showing how Jack perceives Lucien. Everybody else in the courthouse views him as a simple minded moron, while Jack seems him as his own complex sophisticated person. This shows Jack’s love and compassion towards the boys.
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May this be how Lucien hears himself or how he wishes to talk, it does not matter. I find that as Lucien looks directly into the camera he is no longer talking to the court, but rather us. He is directly speaking through the screen and reminding us that he is here. It is eerie, yet breathtaking
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I agree that this scene is presented as to “humanize” Lucien and make the audience realize that, he too, is a living human being that is able to form his own thoughts and ideas. This scene gives an insight to how Lucien may feel he appears to others to how he actually appears, as Lucien is a living, breathing person, like everyone else, however he is limited in his life by his mental capacity
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I believe that this is not the perception of Lucien, but the perception of Jack. I think this because when everyone else looks at Lucien, they see his disability, not his humanity. When Jack looks at Lucien, he does’t see him in the same way. He sees an independent individual man who is not defined by his disability. Jack sees Lucien, not his disability.
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Pure poetry here. “A man whose capacity for thought is somewhere between a five-year-old and an oyster.”
This is a monologue you might study for days before fully appreciating the truth Lucien is bringing here.
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Acceptable as a description of a condition. Not a label. Not a person. Not a descriptor for something we find disagreeable.
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In this part of the movie when Lucien is talking to the panel he refers to himself as retarded. When he said this it really stuck out to be because in our society people think it is okay to throw this word around like it does not mean something. Having an uncle with down syndrome, I know how this word can affect the person and their family. Whenever I hear someone use the word in a negative connotation, I ask them to not say it around me. In our day and age people need to educate themselves and find different way of saying words like gay and retarded in the wrong way. It is time for these things to come to an end.
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My sensitivity to this word has increased recently over the years. It has become such a horrible word used by people who want to find a good word to describe someone as stupid. Mental retardation is not saying something stupid. Mental retardation is not a state of idiocy. Mental retardation is not being ignorant. Mental retardation is a disorder; a developmental delay. It’s a spectrum. There are levels. Some people are more delayed than others. It’s not our job to determine those levels, and it certainly is not our job to compare our friends to actual retarded people. With my sister, who is definitely on the more severe end of the spectrum, I get pretty offended when people use this word in front of me, especially if they know about her. Definitely better words to use when you joke around with your friends.
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I’m guessing that the scene where Lucien begins talking with more than just the people from the senate, it represents what Lucien might be thinking on how it going versus how it actually is going, or vice versa but with Jack.
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This is one of the more powerful scenes in the move so far. Lucien is struggling to speak of his friends and home and then it switches. It isn’t real obviously, but gives insight into his life. Maybe this is what really goes on inside his head, he just doesn’t have the ability to say it. The senate members are bored an annoyed, they treat him like he has no worth. Lucien says “I will not go away”, no matter if people act like he doesn’t exist, he does. It shows how people who suffer from mental illness and disability are overlooked and how they are treated like they don’t exist. Just because you act like something or someone doesn’t exist doesn’t mean they disappear.
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Look how the panel situates Lucien in the room. Above and below. Distanced. It appears that most of the panel cannot believe that they must be here today to listen to this testimony. Lucien tells his best truth. . .
Watch how everything in this scene shifts from an empty room to a full gallery. The Spiderman tie and sweat jacket to a full suit of closes. The absent gaze to the piercing stare and resolve. All of this plays out in Jack’s observation of Lucien. That given the moment to have a platform to speak, this is what he might say.
“It…be hard…”
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I agree. I think what Lucien said in his monologue would be what he would say if he could. I think it is also trying to give a voice and bring attention to those who are disabled and cannot speak clearly for themselves, especially the part “I will not go away” (as mentioned above). I also think this has something to do with things being seen through Jack’s perspective. Just as with Norman and Sheila in the dancing scene, where their disabilities were overlooked, this could also possibly be how Jack truly views Lucien. Jack sees him as intelligent and values him as a person and not defining him based on his disability.
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This next line is probably the most powerful within Lucien’s testimony.
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In my opinion Lucien’s testimony is a very powerful part of the movie. Having him take a stand in front of the senate members is a very vulnerable thing to do. It was really interesting to see the senate degrade Lucien on how he talked and then suddenly the room changes to how Jack would see Lucien stand up for himself despite his mental health struggles. The imagery changed from an empty room to a full room and Lucien talking how we view it as “normal”. This line is so moving because Lucien is saying no matter what difficulties he faces, he’s never going to go away and will always fight for his friends and self.
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This is an insanely powerful line. This line means to me that no matter what you do to me or happens to me I will get back to my feet stronger than I have been. In other words “What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger.”
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I found this to be one of the more interesting moments in the film- as so, I decided to dedicate my slides theme to it. Lucien’s speech patterns are immediately picked up and make it easy for those uninterested to ignore his sentiment. So what happens when someone who struggles with communication has something really important to say? Someone- who really cares- listens. This monologue, delivered in the format of a daydream or fantasy, is real. This is what Lucien says. This is what he feels. This conversation is not a fantasy of Lucien’s, but rather a exploited form of what he’s saying. It’s what the congressmen are supposed to understand by really looking in to his thoughts.
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These opinions are not Lucien’s, but Jack’s. This is what Jack wants the committee to see in Lucien. He doesn’t want the committee to abandon the boys because they are helpless without them. Turning them away is turning away the good inside them.
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“Civilizations are judged by the way they treat their most helpless of citizens,” no one could have said it better than Lucien.
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“I am just a simple man, but I simply am…a man.”
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This line is delivered so well and I feel like this line expresses that Lucien internally feels like the rest of us “A simple man” he describes himself, and he just wants to be treated like such, “a simple man.”.
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This, to me, is the most important seen in the entire movie. The look Tony gives him makes me want to think this is something Tony is imagining what he thinks Lucien is trying to say. This is how Tony sees him and his struggle, not very similar to how other people see him. Tony wishes people could understand this. Or, it could be Lucien thinking this, but unable to express it. He almost seems frustrated with himself when he sits back down. In the speech that goes on in, what I think, Tony’s head, he says,“But I will not go away and damaged I may be I shall not wither because I am unique and irreplaceable and a part of you all.” He is a part of us all. His value does not alter simply because he is mentally limited. Our value is equal. Every single one of us. I will not go away simply because you do not like me or do not find my existence pleasing. “I am a part of you all”
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Note that the chair describes Lucien’s day-to-day experience as the “sheltered environment of the handicapped center.” Jack uses the language of “training center.” Do we begin to see the power of words and definition and who gets to define the space and the work? To which text might you point this consideration from the past two weeks?
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Shaun writes an article of defying definition. For it tackles on words and when one uses mental illnesses as a way to change a person. For Shaun’s case, he states he has depression but he is not his depression. For this applies to the film.
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This scene truly broke my heart. Referring to what Heather Purlee said in an earlier comment, people who are mentally or intellectually disabled are very emotional and vulnerable people. They can feel overwhelmed, frightened, anxious, etc. very easily. This scene shares with us Lucien’s emotion and vulnerability as he’s being asked these rather difficult questions that he wants to answer honestly. “It’d be hard,” he answers, as the judge asks him if he can depart from a sheltered home. Tony is holding his hand because he recognizes Lucien’s discomfort and sadness. He comforts him by holding onto him entirely as he lays his head down on the desk, crying. It makes my heart absolutely shatter. Tony adds love and comfort to their life. Lucien does not want to let go of that.
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In this Get-Ready-for-Work conversation, we see two people in a relationship who share similar work outside of the relationship. Note Reena’s seeming detachment from her work? Is this limiting to her work or a sense of her appreciation of real-world circumstance? How does this conversation about the “real world” lend to our deeper appreciation of this film’s subtext?
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We notice what Reena’s job is in this scene and we can take note it is similar to Jack’s. We can tell Reena doesn’t get wrapped up in her job, she faces the reality and hardships of it. She accepts that the foster kids probably won’t stay in one place for long. She is trying to pull Jack into “real world” instances and let him know he is becoming too attached. We notice that the real world for these orphans and people with disabilities can be scary. This makes me appreciate people like Jack and Reena who have the patience and ability to take care of these people. But they have to bring them out into the “real world” and not become attached like Jack has.
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In my opinion, with Reena’s comments made in this section, she is trying to make jack release that rather than helping the boys he is shielding them from the real world. She stated, “Your job is to help these guys function in the real world. If I told every kid I placed in a foster home that they could stay there as long as they wanted I wouldn’t be doing them a favor. Its not real. In the real world people get hurt, people get disappointed.”
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At this point in the film I was astounded by the fact that Norman and Sheila did not realize that they were using a timer instead of a clock. When I set an alarm or need to check the clock I do not think twice about it. This section of the film lets me have a greater appreciation for the things I do not realize other people may not be able to understand.
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First, notice that Reena uses Jack’s language to describe the group home setting. Interesting.
Second, this could be a Refusal of Call for Jack. Notice all of the barriers that he has put up to making this move have always been there prior to this moment. They just have specificity today. It’s Sheila’s visit. Barry’s father. It’s external factors coming down into the micro space where an essential conversation is necessary.
Now, notice that any of these clear and present concerns have not out-weighed the call from his home to be more present? That he has entered into marital counseling as a response to his distancing?
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Our seniors will take over the next twenty minutes of the film and will probably help us to appreciate archetypes and symbols and potential themes. Draw upon seniors year and a half of experience of looking into films to extract key insights and commentary.
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We have got some clues about Sheila early on (at the dance). A bit impulsive, pushes people to clear a space. Play punches Norman. Snaps his suspenders. The knock seems to suggest more of Sheila’s difficulty with interpersonal relations.
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Sheila likes keys as much as Norman, but she wants to take Norman’s even after he says they’re his and he can’t give them away many times. This also shows she struggles with interpersonal relations.
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Here we see a micro-moment in Barry’s life pre-visit from his father.
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What is also interesting about this section of the movie is that we see two visits. One of two love interests, and another of father and son. The contrast in the visits maybe points out the difficulty abled people have in understanding those who are disabled.
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I feel as if the reaction of the news of his father’s appearance kind of foreshadowed how he was going to act when his father started to get on him, making Barry have a psychotic break.
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Here is a scene in which we see one of our “boys” interacting outside of the house. Norman and Sheila. And here, a platonic friendship between Mrs. Freemus and Arnold who watch a “soap” (soap opera) together. Watch as Mrs. Freemus attempts to relate the complexity of a television series and its storyline shared by the characters.
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A comical line from Arnold. Hold onto this one. We’ve seen Arnold reference behavior patterns before regarding the “rat.” Arnold’s due attention to behavior patterns might give us more evidence of a subtext for this film.
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Interesting. Within the smaller group of people here there is a sort of feeling drawn from all by each. Here, Sheila offers her view of Arnold in a quick statement.
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So…from which might you buy your gas? WOOD-LAWN or SWAN-Co?
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Work Schedules and Appointments and Bus Routes and how we manage all of these (and more. . .like block scheduling). All of these are real concerns in a real world not evident in one that is make-believe where there is simply a day.
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And you can still find these buy the checkout counter of your local grocery. Sometimes called Soap Opera Digest.
Imagine having this kind of time to track a television show that unfolds each day vs. binge-consumed.
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I think it’s actually pretty interesting those are what those are in grocery stores. I see them all the time but never knew what they were.
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Watch this tap into Arnold’s sensibilities regarding family. Also, think about whether or not we have ever seen our “boys” sitting about watching television while at home. I’ve seen this film over one hundred times. I think there is a television in the living area but I don’t know that I have ever seen it on.
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This scene stirred up some confusion for me. At first I thought this lady was actually very sweet towards Arnold, wanting to be his friend. Whenever she asked for the money is when I got confused, I kinda got the impression that she was potentially trying to take advantage of him, but I could be very wrong. Did anyone else get this impression?
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Mrs. Freemus has a sense of club and code for membership about who she allows in. This seems to be a return to a suggestion made earlier to Arnold that was more of a glancing generalization that had hurt Arnold’s feelings.
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Is the box. Anyone notice?
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The box covered in bows is a donut box. Through the whole movie Norman has showed his love for donuts because he works at a donut shop and loves to eat them. I think he not only loves donuts but loves them because the donut shop represents his independence and ability to work.
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Megan, thank you for picking up on this. During this scene the box flew right past me, when going back and looking it was for sure a donut box. In my opinion this just helps build Normans character.
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Are we starting to put together the simple gesture along with the complexity of the key issue now?
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I think that Norman giving a set of keys to Sheila shows how much he truly cares about her. I believe the keys represent power and independence to them. Norman make it very clear through the film that his keys meant a lot to him. Norman was able to share something that meant so much to him with Sheila which I believe is a true act of love.
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An interesting comment here that makes us think about the keys as a sort of “balancing” agent. What needs to be “balanced?” How are other keys we see a symbol of a kind of “balancing act?”
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I think the keys give Norman and Sheila both a sense of importance and independence. I look at it like the keys are giving them power that they do not have because of their issues. The keys balance out their lives and make them feel like they are important and powerful.
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Keys open doors, in this symbolization they open the “doors” in life. The keys coincide with the chances and opportunities life presents, resulting in a sense of pride and responsibility when the keys are granted. The characters we’re exposed to have limited access to those “keys” because society doesn’t grant them the same responsibilities. The keys they are given give them the allowed responsibilities, society’s way of presenting inclusion. So when it comes to balancing, the keys balance them between their realities and society’s consideration of “normal life”.
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The visit is cut short because of a miscalculation which lends to the simplicity and sincerity of this scene. This visit has always been about a friendship and sharing of gifts.
Draw from your appreciation of the subtext of this film what you will. What color did we see Sheila wearing when we first met her? What color was her Orchid-inspired ball gown? What is her relationship to our Norman character?
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I love Sheila and Norman’s genuine appreciations for their visit. They both had gifts to give and dressed up for the occasion. It was a very short experience in which they had spent most of their time in the bathroom looking at the shower curtain. Though it was a short, and what one might consider uneventful, visit, Norman and Sheila just appreciated the time and didn’t ask for more. Many people, including myself, take simple experiences like those for granted. They don’t seem like enough, or worth the time and effort.
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Cannot crack open the mystery of IRONY…or am I wrong about this altogether?
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I would have to say that you are right when talking about the irony in this scene.
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I found this scene amusing because Norman is always talking about how he has to have his keys with him 24/7, but in this scene when he is walking Shelia out, he forgets them. He got caught up in the moment with her and being excited to give Shelia her own keys that he ended up forgetting his own.
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Returning to the Store. Watch this scene for a shift in attitude from the clerk that opens up an opportunity for Arnold to complete his quest for resolving his Wheaties problem.
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After watching the elaborate celebration from Arnold after he “returned” his wheaties. I realized that he technically did not return them, he paid for them twice before that and never got his money back. But I guess getting them out of his procession was a win for Arnold!
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I had the similar first reaction as you where I felt upset for Arnold as money is a big worry for people. I then thought deeper and realized that it is not about money. They don’t have to pay for rent or bills, but rather overcoming his fear, worry, or whatever you may call it because Arnold doesn’t have much financial need, other than groceries it seems. This allowed me to smile and celebrate with Arnold.
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I agree with you Makenzie. I feel like in this moment standing up to the clerk is more important than getting his money back. While technically speaking he didn’t win, it was nice to see him celebrate his little victory. The music and his dance brought a smile to my face. As a result, I may have watched the scene one to many times just because it made me happy.
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His dance was one of the highlights of the movie and made me want to try and recreate the dance while sitting and enjoying the movie.
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Although I agree with both Makenzie and Meredith, I have to say that Arnold may have achieved his goal of getting rid of the Wheaties; however, he did not actually return them. I understand that he may not have financial issues or be worried about getting his money back, but it is important for him to learn to stand up to people rather than being walked over. This scene made me both happy and sad because the clerk assumed Arnold was buying the items again rather than allowing him to speak up before they began the check-out process. I can relate to Arnold not wanting to speak up in this situation because one time I accidentally picked out the wrong item to buy, and instead of just switching them, I let the clerk scan it.
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There is a whole chapter on the need for more disability awareness and appreciation in this one second of film.
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While watching this part is class today, it’s sad, but while he was dancing around I was waiting for someone to say or do something mean or judgmental. The people around him just assumed he was crazy, but as you said, without the awareness how would they know to react differently? Still though, since he was doing no harm they should’ve carried on or minded their own.
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In Ted Talks we have watched in the past, people talk about how others view them differently because of their disability. People with disabilities are looked at differently just because they do something or act a certain way that is not “normal” to everyone else. It is sad people do this, people just need to learn to move on with their life and not just sit their and judge people.
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Notice Barry’s room is darkened. We’ve rarely seen Barry when he is not smoking (a known stimulant). He is “chasing” his smoking habit with colas (another stimulant).
And…and who comes to deliver the news of an “announcement?” That’s right…Lucien.
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More instruction from Barry to Lucien regarding the difference between good news and bad stuff.
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During this film it seems as if Barry is closest to Lucien. Barry has more of a reserved, loner personality and tends to keep to himself. Lucien, however, seems to be wearing rose-colored glasses, and usually surrounds himself with other people. This may be an example of people saying “opposites attract.”
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“I guess that what happens when people have enough keys and donuts”
That’s more than a comment on the moment. Think about what this might mean as a social comment coming from Norman. When people have entry and feel inclusion and there are resources to share…
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Lucien disrupts the flow of a difficult moment being nothing different or more than who he is. This is one of my favorite moments from the film.
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For so much of this movie, Jack struggles to reveal that he is leaving. This moment has been a long time coming. An announcement has been “announced” as it were, and Jack struggles to get anything out. Lucien saying “You done, Jack?” may be a signal, beginning the end of Jack’s relationship with the four of them. He “is done.”
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Watch how this glimpse of recognition from Barry separates his level of understanding from that of the other “boys” in the room.
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No one but Barry got the hint that if Barry had accepted a new job, he would not be sending as much time with them. Although Barry sees himself as a friend to the boys he spends a lot of his time with them, making it a full time job. When he announced that he got a new job, none of the boys except Barry picked up on the fact he would be leaving them.
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Notice that this is the second time we have heard the “born in a barn” comment. Once from Norman regarding the leaving a door open. Now, regarding how one’s home might appear to others.Is this comment a clue for a potential CLASS theme?
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I have heard the phrase “born in a barn” numerous times from my grandma and mom. My sister and I both leave the door open on occasion and our mom or grandma make sure to let us know what we did. I feel as though this could become a CLASS theme. It is something that is a recurring thing and could lead to a potential CLASS theme.
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The whole movie has been building up suspense to this scene. Through the characters constantly refer to it and Barry’s personality slowly changes. In the beginning Barry seems confident and sure of himself, but the minute he got the letter saying his father was coming into town a shift happened. He started getting anxious and worried and began twitching a lot more. Which is all understandable once the scene plays out. Personally, I had no hopes that this scene was going to end positively. When Barry’s father did arrive, I was prepared for the worst. The first red flag I noticed happened right as Barry opened the front door. While Barry said hi to his father, his father just stood there staring Barry down. From that moment the mood was set for the visit and I was sad to see that I was correct on how the visit would play out.
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It’s remarkable that this is a place where Jack can be present but not necessarily intervene. Each one of his “boys” has a family tree, a family narrative.
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Marking the section for you to follow.
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Barry places a sign right across the bathroom door frames. The social worker, Jack, says, “Isn’t that a little inconvenient? You have to duck down just to get to the can.” To Barry, there was no potential problem with it. This is a small example of what goes overlooked due to one’s disability.
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And it hearkens back to the simple signs we might see in a Winnie the Pooh story. The whole of this moment just sort of happens. There is activity in the room and he walks in and nails the sign to the door. Now that he has the attention of the room, he makes his declaration that this will be the first thing his father will see when he comes in.
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Actually, I believe it was Barry’s Dad who made the comment about the sign being inconvenient and that they would have to duck to use the can and not Jack.
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Leading up to this visit I have noticed Barry had a lot of uncertainty and anxiety due to the fact he was being forced to see his father. Immediately when Bob enters the movie it is known he has the potential to be a jerk. He asks Barry questions about what he does. Barry tells his he gives gold lessons and you can see Bobs face light up as if he may actually have something to be proud of Barry for.
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I noticed Barry’s reaction when his father picked up the paddle. I think it is very likely that Bob abused him when he was younger. In a following scene, at around 1:14:41, he becomes angry that Barry does not hit the golf ball, so he grabs him by the shirt and gets him his face to say “Am I gonna have to be ashamed of you for the rest of my life?” I think it was Bob’s expectations of his son that resulted in his abusive attitude, which is what makes Barry so anxious about the visit.When Barry and Jack revisit the golf course, Barry even says he didn’t hit the ball for his dad because “it would have matter whether or not I was a good shot.” The constant fear of his father’s disapproval holds him down and keeps him from doing his best.
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Meeting Barry’s father has been building up in his mind for the whole film. Barry has been preparing for it for a long time and how that it has come, Barry seems terrified. Not in the “I really respect this man and I a want him to think well of me way” but in the “I’m scared of him” way
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Barry was noticeably anxious when he appeared in a scene ever since his dad called him to tell him he was going to visit. Barry seemed to be thinking about all of the things that could happen to him. When he wanted the other guys to give him and his dad space, he was almost hiding them away. Was he ashamed of them or did he just want to talk to his dad alone? His dad was ashamed of him, and Barry knew that, so maybe he thought his dad would be ashamed of his son’s friends too. Maybe Barry feared what his dad would do to them like what he does to him.
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I think that it is a fair assumption Barry was nervous of how his father would treat his friends/roommates because he hides them away before his father comes. And even with this Mr. Kelmper still demeans them without ever seeing them.
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Barry seemed really nervous and through his words, he explained how he was excited to finally see his dad. He even cleaned up the place and made his dad a sign. When the day was coming closer, the more anxious he became. When his dad arrived, Barry did not want his roommates there to talk to him. We can assume that Barry thinks his dad is ashamed of him and could be ashamed of his friends as well.
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Asking our Blue Three SENIORS to walk us through a thoughtful presentation of this scene. It may not be necessary to make judgement calls on Mr. Klemper.
It will be more helpful to present the visitor as a shared sense of anxiety. Watch as each “boy” has response to this visit as it unfolds.
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Many clues leading up to this visit made me wonder how Barry was treated as a child. I noticed the small details during the visit. Barry’s dad picked up a ping pong paddle for a short moment and you could tell this worried Barry. He began to flinch and shy away from his father as if he was going to turn around and hit his with it.
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Barry’s different responses to his dad movements and words made me believe that as a child Barry was verbally and physically abused. Barry would not look his dad in his eyes and when Barry spilt the soda he looked at his dad in fear then continued to keep his head down.
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This films surrounds the lives of four handicapped men. They are under the supervision of a social worker, who is to say the least, burnt out. This movie takes you through what life is like for not only the disabled, but also those caring for them.
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Better here to use “person with a disability.” The use of handicapped has fallen out of favor in these extended conversations. I agree with your assertion that this film is a comment on the caregiver role and the pressures placed upon these people who do this important work.
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Notice no embrace, not even a handshake even for Barry. Immediate movement toward Jack as a potential equal, friend.
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Instead of greeting Berry and showing a sense of love for his son, he invites himself inside the house by telling Berry it is cold outside. It is shown that Berry is very nervous to see his dad and his dad does not comfort him in anyway. He instead greets Jack with a handshake and more of interest to see Jack than he was to see Berry.
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The same thing happens at the golfing range. Barry’s father lashes out at Barry asking him if he could do one thing that would make him proud. Upon seeing that request won’t be fulfilled, he launches himself at Barry and makes him hit the golf ball. Then storms away without a single word to Barry. However, he takes the time to tell Jack he’ll be in the van waiting. Personally, I feel like this further proves Mr. Hankins’ thought about Barry’s father’s respect for Jack.
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Barry’s father invalidates Barry without saying anything to him. The saying, “Actions speak louder than words,” applies here. His father brushes Barry off to shake Jack’s hand because he did not seem to have a disability with first glance, he was a “normal” adult. It would be easy for Barry to feel neglected and to feel that his dad did not care to shake his hand before shaking hands with Jack who was just a stranger. Also at the golfing range, like Meredith mentions, Barry’s father grabs Barry by the shoulders and by the shirt to yell at him. When he lets him go, he starts to leave and says he will be waiting in the van to Jack as he saw he was in his path. He did not yell at him like he just had at Barry, though.
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“Oh…you’re like a ‘Keeper.’”
“I’m like a friend.”
Again, we see the difference a label can make and how the way in which we see our role can be a response to those who see things a little bit differently."
Notice that Mr. Klemper’s response is, again, in terms of “animals” being “kept.”
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Mr. Klemper refers to Jack and his son’s keeper right off the bat. This inference allows the audience to learn how Mr. Klemper views his son. He demotes his son’s capabilities when he infers he needs a keeper in his life. Mr. Klemper also dismisses Jack’s statement that he is his son’s friends. This shows Mr. Klemper does not view his son the same way he views Jack. He views his son as less than Jack and does not believe his son could have a friend that is like Jack. This shows how he is demoting his son because of his disability, thus not giving him the same opportunities he would give someone without disabilities.
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Jack treats everyone like normal human. He knows they are capable of doings things “normal” people are able to do. Mr. Klemper acts as though they need to be controlled and need someone to contently watch over them like children.
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Mr. Kelmper treats his son, and his roommates/friends in such a demeaning was even when he has never met the other men who live in the house. And although he shows Jack more respect than he did his son he still acts entitled. He felt he was entitled to a ride to the golf range and back although he must have known Jack saw his interaction with his son.
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Would you call a mother a “keeper” of her children? Would you call a teacher a “keeper” of her students? No, this interaction would not happen, so why does Bob refer to Barry as a “keeper” to the men with disabilities, not once, but several times over. The answer is clear, Bob sees his son and his roommates as animals.
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I agree with Jessica that Bob sees his son and his roommates as animals and not people. I believe that Bob is a man that is not very fond of people with disabilities, and wants to make them feel bad whenever he can. A prime example of this is when Bob takes Barry out to the golf range, and talks about how he is a disappointed and how he is embarrassed to have Barry as his son.
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More than once (three times) Bob Klemper calls Jack a Keeper. Notice on the third time, Klemper assumes that Jack is his “taxi” to the Pro Shot Golf Range.
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Is anyone else taken by the idea that Bob Klemper has no idea what his son does everyday?
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This line from Bob to me means that he does not know anything about his own son, and quite frankly, I do not think he cares to know anything about Barry’s life.
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I saw this scene play out, and I thought this was a hurtful and demeaning rhetorical question. Bob shows he knows almost nothing about his son, and he treats him as a stranger. With this, his attitude and approach to the question was just wrong. Like what Gavin said, Bob does not care about his son’s life. I am convinced he wants nothing to do with it. I may have missed it, but I am not sure why Bob made the effort to see him to begin with.
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Notice how Bob Klemper immediately makes an assumption about Barry’s occupation.
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Does this affirmation of Barry seem disingenuous to anyone else? The only moment wherein Bob Klemper acknowledges his son as someone worthy is when he meets some ideal that Bob Klemper has established. Look at Barry’s age. We might assume that he is past school age here. A lot of time has passed here.
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All this time, Bob has almost completely refused to acknowledge Barry’s existence. He repeatedly belittles his very existence, all the way up until Barry suggests that he has accomplished something that Bob deems normal or successful. Is this an affirmation towards Barry at all? Or is it some comfort that Bob gives to himself that something has gone “right” with Barry? This affirmation is not a true, sincere acknowledgement of Barry. Bob cannot comprehend the intricacies of Barry’s life. He only cares about achievement. This “affirmation” is was a hollow exchange.
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Jon, your point is proven later on in the scene. While waiting for Barry to hit the golf ball, his father yells at him about how he just wanted Barry to do one thing that we could be proud of. For a few moments Bob thought there was something he could finally be proud of his son for. So his attitude has laid back and sort of happy. Obviously thing changed because Barry was so stressed out he couldn’t hit the ball.
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Bob Klemper says, “You’re at least going to give me this much to remember.” Is this from the visit to the next? Or is this Bob Klemper’s exit from Barry’s life altogether? Notice how it is easier for Bob Klemper to leave than it is for for Jack Palmer?
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Mr. Klemper seems to be searching for a way to like his son. He comes into the visit on edge and begins demoting his son’s life. When he finds out this piece of information about his son he becomes elated because he feels he can finally be proud of him. In retrospect there is probably lots of things he could be proud of his son for. However, these are probably things Mr. Klemper has accomplished easily. Therefore, when his son achieves them he does not view it as an accomplishment.
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Mr. Klemper seems to almost be exited to see one thing he thought his son can do. However, this almost happy moment is ruined when Barry could not bring himself to do it. I think there is a deeper rooted issue between Bob and Barry, I think it boils down to Bob being disappointed about Barry’s illness. If bob would realize that Barry is not defined by his illness, then I think they could have better relationship.
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This takes me back to Shaun David Hutchinson’s “Defying Definition” from last week. What Bob is trying to do, which we can see most prominently in this scene, is confine his son to a singular description that he set up for Barry. He was this “ideal Barry,” in his mind, but does not allow him to grow into it. Hutchinson wanted to point out in his article that disorders, illnesses, and disabilities do not define people, and it is society who does. Society defines by (dis)ability and (ab)normality. Anyone who moves outside the box is “strange” and “weird.”
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“When you’re a teacher, you’re a role model. It’s kind of like being a parent. It’s not an easy job. It’s not easy at all.”
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Barry’s father complains parenting is hard, which is true, however, it has been made very obvious that he has not been a good parent at all and feels no remorse for the pain he caused Barry.
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I thought the exact same thing when we watched this in class. how does he know that parenting is hard if he was never there to parent?
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Here, Barry’s father is showing us a lot about his character. From what I see here, he falls into the shadow warrior category. He has a fear of ineptitude, not for himself but for his son. He has spent his life trying to help his son because he always thought he would be extraordinary, but Barry did not turn out how his father thought he would/should. That is the big thing that pointed me towards the shadow warrior, “a view of all difference as a threat.” Barry’s father saw the world different than Barry, so that must mean Barry is wrong. But he’s not. Barry’s father is blinded by this ideal son so much that he is not appreciating Barry as he should be.
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I thought the same thing. Barry has worked so hard to overcome his fear of seeing his father, and when his father find out Barry has a job, he seems proud. You can see Barry smile in the kitchen because his father seems proud. If his father appreciated Barry’s dedication to teaching, then he would see how good of a son Barry is.
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Barry’s father comes to visit after some odd years. They chat at Barry’s home and then they go to the golf range after Barry reveals that he gives golf lessons. His father wants him to hit the ball but he cannot. Barry’s dad grabs him and forces him to hit it, and then storms off. Barry has an episode and Jack comes to help him. Barry’s dad is a very likely suspect for Barry’s case of schizophrenia, the emotional damage he as caused has ruined Barry.
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I too agree that Barry’s father seems to have emotionally damaged Barry possibly in his childhood and continued through his adulthood. From the golf scene it is quite clear that Barry’s dad has noticed Barry dealing with his schizophrenia for years and is finally fed up. In most situations similar to this one, a loving parent would take time with their child to show their appreciation and caring for them, however Barry’s father is tired of seeing his son struggle with ordinary things due to his mental illness and instead, forcefully takes control of this situation so his son will not disappoint him again.
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Watch how Bob Klemper assumes that he will get a ride back…to where? Where was he going to go? Back to a hotel? We assume he must live a little further away as he took a cab to get to the house.
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Yes, now we see yet another side of Bob Klemper that shows just how narrow-minded and insensitive he is.
Where does a guy like him go after strangling a son he’s disappointed of? I don’t think there are any wrong answers. To assume that he’s still going to get a ride says that he thinks others share the same attitude towards those less than others, so imagine being this guys son…
It was so refreshing to hear Jack tell him “go to hell” as us kids in the room were able to get some our hatred towards Bob out.
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For our seniors, we might call this scene with Mrs. Tracy the “epiphany.” Students of the signposts would call this an “Aha Moment.”
Jack Palmer finally puts together what everything is and what his role is in relation to what has always been and will be.
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Bob seems to have some anger issues especially towards his son. He aggressively grabs Barry and asks his “son” if he will have to be ashamed of him the rest of his life. He then grabs the gold club, swinging aggressively, and storms off with major anger built up. This possibly gives us a glimpse of what Barry dealt with as a kid.
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Abby,
I agree it does seem that Mr. Klemper is angry with how his son has turned out. This could be a result of his son not turning out to be the child he had imagined. Mr. Klemper does not see his son’s accomplishments as real accomplishments thus leaving him searching for a way to be proud of his son.
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“They don’t think of themselves as your job. You’re their angel. Protector. Friend.”
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Barrys father is under the impression Jack is simply there to watch over the boys and that he doesn’t have any real connection which in fact he does.
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I feel as if a reason Jack feels so strongly about leaving is that he can never really leave. This is not just a job to him, its a friendship. He will never stop being the caretaker of the boys, he will always be their friend.
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Looking in on Jacks relationship with the boys, you can see they all have a strong connection to Jack. This reminds me of a families relationship, they all find comfort within each other.
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Jack is the caregiver archetype in this film. He tends to pay attention to Norman, Lucien, Barry, and Arnold more than himself that Jack’s wife had to remind him he could not take care of them forever. His job was not making him happy and it was stressing him out too much that he forgot his own birthday. His wife even took them to a marriage counselor. He knew he had to leave them for a new job, but he did not have the heart to tell them right away as he got a new job offer. The new job would allow him to grow beyond himself and be better to his own needs rather than someone else. It was hard for Jack to tell them because he loved them and wanted to continue to take care of them. The boys did not see Jack as just a caregiver or someone to look over them. They looked up to him, like Mrs. Tracy says, “You’re their angel. Protector. Friend.” Jack sees them as his friends, as well, and they are more than a job too.
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“You know what it is? They never change. I change. My life changes. My crises change.”
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They all have similar poppets on to be alike. I do not think they like being different from each other. At the end they all scare Jack. Jack makes them feel good and act like he had gotten scared.
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Jack spends most of the movie in denial of many harsh truths, and it is only this point at which he admits what he was scared to bring to his conscious thoughts. He was in denial of his marriage falling apart, the toll the boys had taken on his life, and that they did not understand what his new job meant. Jack’s character arc concludes with him doing what’s best for his life and future. His problems will change and evolve, while the boys are usually going to need the same basic care through their lives.
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KEYS.
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Has Norman been in a psych ward before? In the scene where Jack goes to visit Barry in the psych ward, the guard who opens his door has a ring of keys on his belt. This connects to Norman feeling so protective over his keys because if he loses them, he loses his ability to “leave his room”. This is why he is so protective of them and doesn’t want anyone to touch them or let them out of his sight.
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I wanted to take a moment in this light-hearted film to present the reality of Barry’s situation. We see Barry hospitalized here. There is a good chance that Barry will not return to the home from here. This makes the remainder of the film a tender touch point. Note that his room is very spartan. He doesn’t even have bedding in this point in his admission to the floor. That Jack would take him out here is VERY unlikely regardless of intent or cause. I just wanted to point this out. Barry is post-breakdown in this moment.
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Jack comes in to visit Barry and I couldn’t help but notice the lack of expression on Barry’s face. Jack stood and carried on a conversation with his where Barry never spoke a word. Towards the end of the conversation Jack said the party would not be the same without Barry there. Barry raises his hands over his eyes. Jack asks him why he closed his eyes and Barry says, “because I can see whats coming”.
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Our Blue Four students will take us into the conclusion of THE BOYS NEXT DOOR.
There is plenty of commentary here from me and it will build with your peer responses (and yours). You’ve never seen a film like this. You’ve never interacted with a film in this manner before. We’re doing a deeper work here and making an argument for film as text during a year when it is difficult for us to share paper/hardcover books together. I look forward to seeing what you draw from this film and from this experience as your takeaways help me to shape and form the instruction to come (in seventeen years we have never annotated or looked at this film as deeply as we are with you).
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Notice that Norman’s “Punch” is part Gatorade and part Cola. Yum.
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Arnold’s plan is ruined by the arrival of Sheila. Reset the scene. Jack’s surprise…take two!
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In the beginning of the movie Arnold held a surprise party to tell Jack that they were selling their house. That party was interrupted by the couple coming in to check out the house. This party was interrupted by Sheila coming in. This the party that Jack tells them that he is leaving to go work at his new job. Everyone starts getting upset and mad at him.
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Arnold comes down the stairs carrying a box. When he sets the box down, Shelia and Norman both guess what’s in this box. When their guess are wrong, Arnold opens up the box and pulls out animal puppets. He explains to Norman that he bought animal puppets because when they have a puppet on one hand and another on the other hand, then they become three guest instead of one. To me, it feel as if Arnold was wanting it to be a bigger party, but didn’t know who to invite or how to invite others. He bought the puppets as a way of having more people at their party for Jack.
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I noticed this too, Emma. The two guesses being made were donuts and a frog. They were shocked, yet surprised, to see that the contents inside the box were animal puppets. This simple act of kindness from Arnold to Jack allows the audience to become sympathetic for the lack of people attending the party.
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I did not realize this until you pointed it out. I did not really think there was a deeper meaning to this and it amazes me that there are many things I probably would not have noticed unless someone points it out to me. Thank you for sharing this with us! Never would have noticed without your message.
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I didn’t notice this either but I definitely can see it after you said something. He was very excited and wanted everything to be perfect for him and did his best to create a good party for Jack.
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I recognized this as well, Emma. I was trying to figure out the deeper meaning of this scene and I just kept thinking "more people’ and now that I know you noticed it as well, I agree with you. Arnold wanted more people there, so that was his kind gesture to do so.
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I realized this as well the fact the Shelia kept mentioning the frogs in the box.
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I think analyzing exactly what Shelia and Norman guessed when Arnold brought down the box is important. Shelia said frogs. This is not her first mentioning frogs, she had said something about them when she had first visited the house for her date with Norman. Norman had said donuts. We all know Norman consistently talked about donuts throughout the entire movie. I think this is meant to show their likeness and compatibility. They both have something, some topic or object, they fall back onto because it is familiar. It really illuminates how right for each other they are.
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Please don’t miss the symbolism here. Do you see familiar puppets and who is wearing them?
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I feel at this scene with the party it really adds conflict to Jack’s decision to leave. It really shows him what he’ll be missing, and a part of him still wants to stay, so it has to give him a bad feeling to see them throw him a party when he knows he’ll have to tell them he’s leaving.
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Remember, too, that these “boys” were planning a “goodbye” party for Jack at the beginning as they were going to sell the house without telling him. This is just another party. What is it that they are celebrating? What are they missing? How is this particularly poignant for Jack and Barry? Why?
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They were planing a party for Jack for his new job that he told them about but they never realized that they were his job, until the end on the film.
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Part “Home on the Range” and part “Old Macdonald Had a Farm.”
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Why do you suppose the alternate position/occupation for Jack would be to lease cars? What might we infer from this new career path?
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Watch Barry’s comment: “He’s leaving YOU. He’s leaving me.”
Notice he doesn’t say he is leaving US.
But, not that he does say Jack is going away forever. “He’s going to another world.” This is an interesting comment given our supposition that this film has a subtext.
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This shows that Barry understands there is a division between Jack with them and Jack at his other job. The others didn’t seem to understand what this meant. I think this also ties into the situation with Barry’s father. I feel that it has shown him a darker light of the world, and how people view others with disabilities.
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Even though a seemingly negative and grim view of the world, how does this POW help Barry to navigate the world he must live within each day?
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I think by saying this he is coming to terms with jack leaving and the difference it will make in his life. He more concerned about his day to day life changing than any of the other people Jack took care of.
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Barry chose to use the words, “you” and “me,” not “us.” He is ostracizing himself from the people around him. He doesn’t seem to think of himself as being part of the group. I think he does this to cope with his own issues inside his head. To him, it might be easier to suffer on his own than to drag others down with him. He may think he is strong enough to deal with things, so he pushes the others away so that they don’t get hurt. In reality, I believe he is trying to protect them.
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Barry saying that he is leaving “me” shows how much he is hurting from the fact that Jack is leaving them, and he really doesn’t want that to happen.
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As the movie has gone on we have seen each character have something coming up or they were looking forward to. For Lucien, there was the talk with the senators. For Arnold, there was returning the groceries, which he finally does and is very excited by. For Norman, there was the dance with Sheila and then her coming over. For Barry, it was his dad coming to see him. Barry’s big build-up was the only one that really went per se. Adding the encounter with his dad and Jack leaving we can really see Barry upset with what has been happening recently.
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I agree, Brandon. I think this scene is crucial to the development of the story line plot. The directors specifically chose to include the scenes about each character having a personal triumph. I believe these encounters are crucial and deeply important to the personal growth of each individual character.
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I noticed what Brandon did. Each character had a goal that they were trying to achieve. At the start of the movie, the characters seemed to be timid and scared to do what their tasks were. For Arnold, he was having trouble with speaking up at grocery store. When he went there the second time he wasn’t able to tell them that he didn’t want the groceries. The last time he was able to speak up and he got very excited when he had to put them back. To me, this shows a great amount of character development and personal growth. As the movie went on, each character was able to achieve the things they were scared about doing.
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I think an important part of what is happening here is how much Jack truly cares for all of them. You can tell how much he isn’t enjoying telling them he’s leaving and even when they start to react poorly to what they have been told he is still trying to help them the best he can.
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First, be careful or all of these second person YOUs are going to creep into your response or someone else’s response.
I know we have only introduced archetypes, but how is Jack’s announcement actually a betrayal of innate and simple trust each of the boys has placed in their Caregiver. He has instantaneously “orphaned” each with only Barry really able to communicate what is happening.
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I think this scene also highlights jack’s fears. We see a little earlier how he convinced himself that the boys already knew he was leaving. Jack even forgets about his own birthday to care for them.
He really does love them, and I think the way this situation played out was one of his biggest fears.
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Look how Jack’s work is leaking out the micro (the house) into the meso (his home and relationship). Even the macro has an impact (the State Senate).
What strikes me about this scene is that the problem is no longer contained. It’s bust open with Barry’s hospital admission and now the house in chaos.
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While watching this part I was thinking that Jack was scared because you can tell by his voice and his actions. This is the part of the job that would be difficult to handle at the same time.
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A recurring subject in the movie is phoning and calling. It could represent Jack’s relationships with different people. When he and his wife have their argument, he is phoning between different people, trying to keep up with both conversations. Eventually, the other person hangs up with him. This is a microcosm of Jack’s life. He is caught between two lives, and he cannot maintain them both healthily. In this scene, Barry suggests Jack call the police to deal with the chaos. Jack does not respond. He does not want to outsource the job of resolving the situation to the police. He believes the situation is still in his own hands or that it will resolve on its own. He still owes himself to the wellbeing of the boys and will avoid calling other people
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Back to the Pro Shot Golf Range. This is where we first met Barry. Before you watched this scene, what did YOU think of Barry’s ability as a golf instructor? A lot of our unintentional personal bias might come to light right here in this scene.
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Being completely truthful, from Berry’s previous golf scenes I had doubt in his skill level. When he was instructing it seemed that he had an idea of what he was doing but I was not fully convinced. The night with his father made me believe that he did not fully know what he was doing. The night with Jack changed my perception, I realized that he was fully capable of succeeding, the pressure from his father just made it difficult to show. I feel as if pressure from a family member is something that weights on many individuals, disability or not.
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The spilling of the cola seems to be a clue to Barry’s psychological state in this visit. Highly-charged ready to make simple errors even as he pleases his dad.
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When Jack took Berry back to the Pro Shot Golf Range, Berry was able to show that he was capable of hitting the golf ball and be an instructor. However, when his father was around, he seemed to struggle. He was trying to show his father that he was capable of doing tasks, like fill cups or hitting golf balls, but he wasn’t able to complete these.
I feel that Jack was a safe space for Berry and he always made Berry feel comfortable, whereas Berry’s dad was putting pressure on Berry to succeed. To me, this made me realize that Berry felt very judged and like he wasn’t enough when he was around his father. That made him mess up tasks that he’s able to complete around Jack and the other boys.
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In the original golf scene, Barry held the golf club with a “baseball grip” which his dad critiqued him on, and Barry kept shaking which prompted the fight with his dad. When Jack takes Barry back to the Pro Shot Golf Range Barry had the proper grip and wasn’t shaking then hit the ball like a pro. Jack was proud of Barry but not because of the shot but because of the fact that he hit it at least. The difference between Jack and Barry’s dad is that Barry could have hit the ball for his dad but if the swing or hit wasn’t good enough he still would have thought of his son as a disappointment. Jack has more love and compassion for Barry as a person instead of loving whether he can do something or not.
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Could his baseball grip have been an invitation for his father’s criticism? Was it Barry’s way of gauging perhaps how this moment would go? He grabs the club. Instant criticism. Explained away but criticism all the same.
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It seems like Barry’s father has had long standing issues when it came to him being proud of Barry. Any small attempt that Barry made to make his father appreciate his efforts have always ended in his dad physically or emotionally hurt him. While I feel his baseball grip could’ve been open to critique as he told his father that he taught golf to others, it still does not excuse his father from manipulating him.
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At first when I saw that he was Golf Instructor I thought it was like a hidden talent of his, but then the scene with his Barrys father I was really confused. At the end of the film he hits the ball and that shows us that he could but just didn’t do it in front of his father.
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Because it would have mattered to him whether or not it was a good shot. It wouldn’t matter to you what kind of shot it was.
“You’re right. All I wanted was to see your shot.”
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This scene really does show the parental difference between Jack and Barry’s Dad. Sure, they both love Barry, but Jack’s a little different.
Even in the senate scene with Lucien, we see Jack’s perspective of Lucien, (at least that’s what I thought it conveyed.) which is one of admiration and pride for the struggles they go through.
Barry’s dad seems to see him as some sort of Kickstarter project. He’s wanting to see some sort of “achievement towards normalcy” from his son. We see later that this has been something brimming on his mind for a long time from his outburst.
They both want to see Barry flourish but I don’t think his dad wants it for Barry’s benefit. Jack cares out of great pride and love for seeing the boys being able to achieve their goals. I really do admire their relationship.
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There is a real and present frustration for Bob Klemper and what he might have expected as a father and what was expected of him. He stares at his hands after he grabs Barry and makes asks his hurtful question of Barry. It seems to suggest we have been at this level before…
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In this moment I realized that Jack was more of a father figure to Barry than his actual father and how he knew no matter what his shot was Jack would not judge him. Jack’s opinion would not change of Barry based on a golf shot but Barry’s dad blew up and was furious when he couldn’t do it right.
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I find this scene to be a very strong one. When I was first watching and I saw where they were going I thought Barry was going to try and redeem himself you could say, in his own eyes. I thought he was upset at himself and wanted to prove to himself and Jack that he could do it, but that isn’t what happened. What happened was he hit the golf ball and he hit it very well. What you learn is that he actually is good, but he didn’t want to show his dad because he knew his dad wouldn’t care for the right reasons like Jack would. I think this gives us some really strong insights into Barry and who he is.
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Even the grip he showed his father has changed now with the one he will show Jack.
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I noticed how Jack treats Barry more like a son than his own dad did. This is shown very well in the golfing scene, specially when Barry shows how calm he is around Jack. Its a stark contrast to the trembling from before, with Barry’s biological father. This scene was very moving, and it was one of my favorites, but there’s more to say about after this.
When Jack took Barry back to the ward, he treats him gently. Barry crawls into his bed, and Jack goes as far as to take off his shoes, tuck him in and give him a paternal kiss on Barry’s temple.
I think this just goes to show that bonds can be special despite blood relations, and that Jack is truly a loving figure in Barry’s life. This also might explain the outburst at the party, Barry could have been showing his fear of losing another father figure.
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This is a really good point! Jack is so caring towards Barry. Jack does not care whether Barry’s aim when golfing is good. He was just proud that he hit the golf ball. That is a reason why Barry trusts Jack more than he does his biological father. His biological father would not care about his sons hit, he would care about how he hit. he would tell Barry everything he did wrong when golfing. Jack would be proud of Barry no matter what.
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When Jack asks Barry why he didn’t perform for his dad like he did for Jack, Barry responds “it didn’t matter to you what kind of shot it was, you just wanted to see a shot”. This shows us that Barry knows the difference between how Jack and how his father see him. Jack is proud of his for doing what he is able to do. His father wants absolutely everything he does to be done perfectly.
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Jack believes in Barry whereas the father just wants to see the perfection in Barry. The fact that Barry sees the difference in Jack and his own father was shocking. Barry chooses to see the good in Jack despite the constant pressure he has to act perfectly for his father.
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This part of the movie really got to me. It made me sad to see how Barry had been mistreated by his father. His father wanted Berry to just be able to do normal things. It was like his father wished you had never had a disability it at all, and just wanted Barry to be normal. You can see in the way that Barry reacts but this affects him a lot. I can tell he wants to be normal for his father but he just can’t. I think Barry feels a lot of resentment towards himself and blames himself for his father actions.
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This particular scene is an incredibly powerful one. It shows how comfortable Barry is with Jack and how much he trusts him. Barry sees Jack as more of a father figure than his own dad, and I believe Barry decided to show Jack his “shot” at this time as a final goodbye. It seems as though Barry wanted to show Jack that he shouldn’t worry about him or feel bad for leaving. I believe Barry could see how much this whole situation was hurting Jack just like Jack’s wife was able to, and I think Barry wanted to show Jack he was making the right decision.
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That Jack removes Barry’s shoes here demonstrates a most intimate act. Seniors in the AP Lit course, we might see Jack Palmer as a “literary Christ figure” in this moment tending to Barry’s feet. Juniors, rending care to a person’s feet has roots in symbolism going all the way to Bible stories. This is a tender moment. The director gets it absolutely right here.
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I noticed the sincerity and calmness all throughout this scene. Between the delicate music playing in the back, the taking off of the shoes, jack putting the blanket over Barry, and the kiss jack puts on his head. It allows the audience to see the respect and caring nature Jack has.This scene gives light into the calmness before the next scene unfolds, the escape to Russia.
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The Slow Route to Russia. Arnold has talked the remaining “boys” into this trip. How convincing might he have had to have been to make this happen? Arnold would be the highest functioning member of the household now.
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In this scene, Arnold convinces the rest of the boys to escape to Russia by train with him. Arnold uses his ability of perseverance in order to get the rest of the boys to follow along. Jack finds them all sitting at the train station and starts a light conversation with some of the boys. He brings up the hunger strike and a slight conversation about the balloon. Finally, he speaks to Arnold. Jack explains why he has to leave and says it in a manner of delicacy and sensitivity. Arnold is extremely upset over the fact of Jack leaving, he just does not want to accept it.
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The members of the house have been conditioned all their lives that they are inferior and should look up and follow whoever seems most capable. At this time the most capable one being Arnold I doubt he had to do much convincing to get the rest to follow. Just like when they were trying to catch the rat and everyone decided rats couldn’t see in the dark simply because Barry said so. They all saw themselves as less mentally capable than Barry, so whatever he says must be correct.
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In the Train Station scene Arnold and the rest of the boys are waiting for a train to take them off to Russia. While waiting Jack brings up the hunger strike and other things. I think this kind of set Jack up to walk away. Arnold is not happy with Jack but Jack says he leaves because of sensitivity. i think those topics that he tried to bring up tie right into his sensitivity of not wanting to go to Russia with the other guys.
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A Red Star-Shaped Balloon.
Those following the subtext of this film might recall the gift that was to have been brought to Eeyore by Pooh. Anyone remember? And who is consuming the big bag of popcorn?
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But it IS a symbolic form of communion as this is the first time we ever see Jack Palmer actually share food with any other cast member in the film. And who does he commune with?
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“And that’s a world where people get hurt.”
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As Jack parts with the boys, he tells Arnold this, maybe as advice? Jack was caring for the “boys,” and now he has to let go and prepare them for their endeavors separately.
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“But we hate you.” This scene Jack strongly implies he is not leaving because he doesn’t like them, but because he needs to move on and let them go. When Arnold hears this he says, “but we hate you.” In my opinion Arnold is showing his anger towards the idea of Jack leaving not Jack himself confusing anger vs. hate. Or Arnold may be trying just to make Jack leaving easier by saying “we hate you.”
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I agree with you on how Arnold is not saying he hates Jack, but how he hates the idea. I also believe with Arnold saying “We hate you,” emphasizing the “We,” I think he is basically dragging the “boys” down with him. I think this because on everyone’s facial expressions are saying otherwise. Lucien and Norman do not look like they hate Jack, they might just not like what he is doing.
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This brings up a very good point. Arnold says, “but we hate you,” and you know he does not actually hate Jack. He is angry with the choice Jack chose. However, many do not know how to express their emotions or “label them the correct way.” Arnold clearly does not hate Jack, but it is evident that he is angry with him for leaving. I feel that Arnold wasn’t sure how to express how he felt and the easiest way he would think of was saying he hated Jack, when he was just angry with the choice Jack chose.
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Emma, when you mentioned that many people do not know how to express their emotions, I feel as if a lot of people can relate to this. Many people often have a difficult time expressing themselves to others when they are in a tough situation. I feel like you brought out a good point in this movie that a lot of people probably can relate to! Arnold is not sure how to express his emotions towards jack, so he uses the words, “We hate you.”
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I agree with you. I think that Arnold is confusing anger with hate. Saying you hate one someone has a really deep meaning vs. someone saying I am upset with you. I wish Arnold portrayed his emotions better instead of saying he hated Jack.
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The student with something to learn turns the tables on the teacher who had become his, her, or their instructor. Jack’s insight here helps him to find a path to solving his Wheaties/Sheila/Dad/State Snack problem.
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You live long enough, you get weird. It’s part of the deal.
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This I personally believe to be true, because in the case of Jack his life took so many different turns until it led to him being the care giver/friend of the “boys.” Then later leading him to have a change of heart and planned to work somewhere else. All of these things led Jack to experience different kinds of points of views, from the view of what others thought of the “boys” to what he saw in them. From the Karen calling them a slur, to the speech he believed Lucien said. His experiences led him to see life in a more thought provoking and weird way.
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I was about to comment exactly what you said, but you hit the nail right on the head with that one. Jack’s experiences throughout the movie helped him gain experience and gave him new insights from different perspectives. He grew as a character, preparing himself for his new job, away from the “boys” who he cared for so dearly.
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Notice that Norman’s allusions have always been a little bit nuanced. Obscure even. Now, Norman makes an allusion from the popular culture and Arnold doesn’t catch it. Do you know Laverne & Shirley?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laverne_
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At this point we see Jack telling Arnold, Norman, and Lucien goodbye as they board the train to Milwaukie. I find this scene to be a sweet goodbye as we see Jack tell Lucien that he does mean business and Lucien tells Jack to keep his balloon. Then he talks to Norman about keys and doughnuts. Finally, Arnold is still upset at first but as the train is leaving he shouts at Jack telling him “he has better behavior patterns than most other people”, and he doesn’t seem as upset anymore. As the train rides off we see everyone waving and smiling and shouting nice things to each other as they leave each other’s sight. This provides a nice closure as their current relations are not ended on a sour note and everyone appears to be happy.
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I’d like to point out that I agree with what you said in your post, but I don’t think it was all 100% happy. Maybe at the very end, they were, but Jack appeared to be almost tearful ad he hugged his wife. He turned away from the train and shook in Rina’s arms. It seemed to be a moment that was very difficult for him.
Jack was yet again being held up by his wife, but this moment also shows the growth between the two. They were somewhat distant in the beginning, and they even went through couples therapy together. I think it was a lot harder for Jack than what was initially thought. He will still be their friends, and visit from time to time, but this is him moving onto a new part of life without them.
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I find this scene to be a heartwarming departure of friends. He lets Lucien know that he means a business which is his somewhat catchphrase, he talks to Norman about how much he has learned about keys and doughnuts, then when he goes to talk to Arnold Arnold sort of refuses the goodbye. The scene of Arnold still being made is like a raincloud appearing on a sunny day then it appears to vanish when Arnold says goodbye as the train is leaving.
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I noticed the nice closure that this scene brought to not only the boys but to the audience as well. At this point in the movie, we have all attached ourselves to certain characters and we want the best for them, even if it is just a movie. This scene allows the goodbye to be bittersweet in the way that the audience does not want Jack to leave but we know that the boys will be okay in the end, even without Jack.This scene leaves happiness and hopefulness for the remainder of the movie. This scene makes me wonder if the boys are just putting on a happy facade for Jack or if they are actually excited about a new start?
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Katie asks a good question. I believe they have mixed emotions about saying goodbye. They were clearly upset that Jack was getting a new job, but they also seemed happy to go on their train trip. They all of a close bond that they will miss because they won’t be seeing Jack everyday, but it’s clear that was closure for all of them as they left on the train.
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I think Katie’s question was very good and something I had to think about for a minute. I do agree with Emma and think everyone was sad to say goodbye but got closure at the end. Everyone has a new, different life ahead of them and seemed to be moving past their old lives.
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The ending train scene seemed to be filled with excitement and wonder, other than sadness. Yes they were clearly upset about Jack getting a new job, as Emma stated,but they seemed overall happy that they got to experience the world for themselves. Jack was happy for them, but also sad to see them go.
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Ok… So that was honestly a very good scene. The nuance of the goodbyes and subtleties of the callbacks were at a level I was not expecting from a 90’s movie. Not to mention, I liked the way the ending was shot. It could have been a long singular take from the booth to the train, and it was shot as if it should’ve been. Something about the cuts feel jarring and the stability of Jack’s emotions could be called into question, just by the way he moves stiffly and never walks next to the “boys” This is expounded upon with the shot-reverse-shots, where we see the boys’ faces but only the side-profile of Jack. And then finally confirmed when he breaks his demeanor and lets his emotions melt in Rina’s arms.
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Throughout the whole movie, the audience may interpret Jack´s relationship as strictly just a ¨Keeper¨ or a person just going to their job everyday for pay. But once Arnold, Norman, and Lucien were loaded onto the train, Jack crumbles. Every ounce of care he had was given to these ¨boys next door.¨
Within the movie, the characters all show something they love. For Norman, his pride for working at the doughnut shop and his crush on Sheila radiates compassion. For Lucien, he desperately carries around his stuffed dog and speaks so innocently and caringly. For Arnold, his motivation throughout the movie to return the groceries is thoroughly driven. For Barry, he exposes his complex relationship with his dad and the effect it has on him. And lastly, Jack shows his absolute love, patience, an understanding with these men. Jack sees them how they should be seen by everyone. He sees them as individuals with every emotion, every hardship, and every possibility for potential. All the characters may all love different things,such as, doughnuts, a set of keys, or a stuffed dog, but Jack´s love for them is ultimate.
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In the last scene I felt as if there was a cliff-hanger. When the end scenes came on I thought to myself, “Is that really the end?” We ask ourselves questions such as, “Where is the train actually going?” or “How long will the train begone?” We wonder what will happen between the characters in the movies relationships. Will their relationships continue? How will their lives be different?
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I felt the same way at the final scene. I manifested the thoughts of where the “boys” will go after the stop, how long they will be able to last without Jack, if any of them, like maybe Lucian, would try to come back, and if they will be able to connect with anyone else the way the connected with Jack. I even thought about these characters as real-life people and wondered how and if they would be able to contact Jack if they wanted. I was curious if Jack or Mrs. Tracy would cut off communication completely to help them adjust more quickly or if they would be allowed to talk to him very often.
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I also felt the same about the ending being a cliff-hanger, however i believe this also allows for us to use our imagination to continue the story ourselves. The ending allows for us to decide how we would like the story to continue ourselves and I personally enjoy endings such as this.
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General Document Comments 0
Remember to take into consideration that while The Boys Next Door presents as a light-hearted comedy, there is a serious and sensitive side to the film. Our disclaimer in the room is that the play does give individuals with disability a platform and a voice within the film. Take both sides into consideration as you view and make comment.
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“Chunking” the film will help us to avoid flooding the film with early or late commentary with potential for missing the middle. Ideally, we would like to see students commenting on what another block adds to the conversation.
Comments here may include earlier occurrences within the film that might speak to foreshadowing, recurring symbols, thematic development, etc. . .
O1: Opening Credits to 22:37.
O3: 22:38-40:31 (The Dance)
O4: 40:32-58:01 (Time to Tell)
B1: 58:02-1:09:11 (The Visit)
B3: 1:09:12-1:19:12 (What’s Coming)
B4: 1:19:13-End Credits
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A theme can be defined as a “universal message expressed implicitly or explicitly by an author or a director; often presented as a sort of ‘truth.’”
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Themes can be best categorized among nine distinct over-arching focuses (or foci):
Political
Social
Economical
Psychological
Religious
Domestic
Gender
Class
Interpersonal/Intimacy
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One way to come into a potential theme is to plug in one of the categories and then make an informed/evidence-based intention of the author or director. Example:
Regarding POLITICS, the author/director seems to think or suggest _______________. The reader/viewer sees observes this in __________________.
Of course, it would be best to revise for specificity of the passage or scene:
In the scene where ______________, the author or director seems to make a comment on the power of government agencies over the powerless (a POLITICAL consideration).
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In this approach to theme, the reader/viewer considers deeply the various terms that might fall under a particular category.
The formula for this looks like (Term from the Category) as (Descriptor of the Term from the Work).
Politics from The Boys Next Door might carry terms like: Senate, power, testifying, benefactor,system,
There’s politics in the film but not enough to be the overarching category for the film.
When we plug in the terms for politics, we find something interesting:
Politics as Intimidating/Frightening/Something to Be Feared.
Do you see the potential blending of Political and Social Themes here? That is because they can “weave and blend” to create more nuanced themes.
What if Jack had seen the government as a source of hope? It is evident that he does not. He sees the cuts as an inevitable ending to the testimony. Since Jack is a character in a play, this must be the Political-Psychological theme of the work. It is the not the big theme of the work, but it is one that could be explored.
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Ms. Kramer’s students would often study Beers and Probst’s SIGNPOSTS as 9th graders. One of these signposts is WORDS OF THE WISER. This might be a quote from someone older, but not necessarily. This person need only be a little more wise than the recipient. For instance, Johnny tells Ponyboy to “Stay gold.” We get a theme in those two words. That the idea of staying pure and good and shining before the dark is the mark of a person’s value in this world.
Often these words of the wiser can be the bigger themes of a work. We need only recognize them and work them into one of our known categories.
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Because themes are seen as a “universal truth,” we must strip them of specificity that is drawn from a story. In order to do this take anything specific to the film from your them and express this in universal terms. Jack becomes “a man” or “one.” The “boys” might become a “group.”
The real litmus test of a theme is in its capacity to connect to other works. This is the work that I do as a teacher, reader, reviewer.
The big litmus test of a theme comes of making a connection to ME. THEME=THE ME. Can I find my experiences in the truth of a work I am reading? If so, I know that the theme must work on some level of universal truth.
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Did anyone notice that the while the boys make note of things that happen at work, we never see them there (except for Barry). When the “boys” move, they move as a group. Even at the dance, they interact with one another, the exception being Sheila.
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Now that you mention that I do realize that we never get to see them at their jobs and now I am very curious on why they did that.
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Once the boys have killed what they claim is a rat even though it’s a hamster I feel like the close up of the hamster is a form of possible foreshadowing since the family who just moved in next to them has a pet hamster.
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1996: 25-29K/annually
2020: 58K with a MSW (Masters of Social Work)
Since Jack is a group home supervisor, he may not be professionalized.
Today, a non-professional Group Home Supervisor in a large city might expect to make about 32K a year or about 15.45/hourly. Many times these positions carry a lot of overtime with a lot of turnaround for support staff.
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My close friends mom works with as a social worker. She does not make that much as one. she does it part time and she says it gets very stressful for her.
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Think on these terms. We still hear many out there in the larger culture even though their usage has fallen out of favor or do not take into consideration the person before the disability:
handicap/handicapped
crippled
lame
invalid
imbecile
retard
mongoloid
special
differently-abled
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People all around us use these terms which is not right and certainly not respectful to disabled people. The TEDtalks touched on this and how we think they are so much different which is not the case. The video said that most disabled people coupe with their illness and live the best life they can.
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I agree with you zach. People around the world use awful words to describe disabled people, and it is almost like they use it loosely. These past two weeks learning about the disabled community has brought light into my eyes on what is acceptable, and what is not.
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We know where these insults come from. We know what people think of when the use the R slur, crippled, or “special.” It’s so harmful to create an insult of someone who is different from us. Further, then to apply in situations where we label someone who has messed up in someway the same derogatory term. It’s awkward. It’s cringeworthy; it doesn’t hold a place in modern society.
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I agree we know we use these insults as a society and it should not hold a place in our society. This is why it is so important to learn and grow knowledge on this issue. The more we grow and the more educated we are, we can hopefully get these terrible terms out of our vocabulary
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I feel like many of us take advantage of the things we have and do lots of complaining throughout our lives. I myself, am not excluded from this topic. I say that there are a lot of people everyday who take advantage of the little opportunities that we get everyday, such as being able to speak correctly or having the ability to see just to name a couple. There are people who have neither of these things, but yet still find the good in situations and are still very grateful, but the people who have these advantages are not taking them and being happy that we have them and we see them as “little things” that just fly over our heads on a day to day basis, but they could be life changing for someone else.
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